| Author |
Topic: To Paraphrase Bill Gates... |
b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 4 Nov 2014 2:22 pm |
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| Ian Rae wrote: |
| Yes, you would - if I'm right it's strings 1 & 10 of the 10-string you don't have. |
Correct.
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If I had a 1st string high E and a 10th string low D, the choice of "which neck to use" would become "which pedals and levers to use" for any given song. Nearly all of the musical capabilities of a D-10 can be produced on a single 10 string neck, given a properly designed copedent.
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Tom Gorr
From:
Three Hills, Alberta
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Posted 4 Nov 2014 3:54 pm
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You're open string tuning sounds great on a piano. It's got sweetness with more warmth than E9, and more punch than C6...So it seems to sit somewhere between jazz and rock, I'd guess...pretty subjective gauging steel timbre on a piano...
If a low D was added, i'd guess it wouldn't fart out like the 68 gauge strings tuned to B or C, and alleviate some of the intonation issues with string deflection. It's a smart range to place a tuning.
Hmmm...is 10 strings enough? I think 11 would be close, but it's a nice approach, b0b. I'm seeing upsides.
Maj7th, min7th, maj6th for starters using open string roots. Nice, I use those a lot...your open string tuning a lot like C6 intervals starting with string 9.
Offhand, I think i'd like a bit more chromatic density, maybe sneak an E in between the D and F# in the lower half of the tuning.
I'm going to look up the late Al Marcus's Lean and Mean 10 string uni and compare with this. |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 4 Nov 2014 4:54 pm
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| Tom Gorr wrote: |
| Offhand, I think i'd like a bit more chromatic density, maybe sneak an E in between the D and F# in the lower half of the tuning. |
There's the same argument that the E9th vs U-12 folks have about the E9th D string. You can get it with a pedal or lever, say the U-12 folks. I can't live without it, say the E9th folks.
I think that encouraging new players to take up the instrument trumps all that. I know accomplished guitar players who are scared to take up pedal steel because they keep seeing D-10 and S-12 monsters. It's very intimidating to sit down behind so many strings.
How many times have we seen topics started by newbies asking "should I get S-10, D-10 or S-12"? Well-meaning veteran players give good advice based on the kind of music the person is interested in playing. How much more encouraging it would be if the answer was "a modern S-10 can handle any kind of music".
10 strings ought to be enough for anyone.
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 4 Nov 2014 5:32 pm
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| Jeff Garden wrote: |
| Somehow Linda Manzer never seems to get the word... |
I know that it was meant in jest, but I should point out that that guitar was not Linda's idea. She was asked by a performer to build a guitar with as many strings as it would take, and that's the design she came up with. The sponsor got a lot of publicity out of it, and so did Linda, which brought forth another order for a similar instrument. Now everyone thinks of that as what a little Canadian girl can dream up. Without her having built it only we luthiers and her discerning customers would ever have heard of the name Lida Manzer.
| Storm Rosson wrote: |
In reference to the original statement, "640K should be enough for anybody"...Gates was talking about ram in a pc. He certainly came up a tad short on that supposition most modern pc's have in the GB's (mine has 32GB) of ram.  |
In fact he was very shortsighted, and most people told him that at the time. He was commissioned to design an operating system, so he stole the CP/M operating system from Digital Research and made a few changes, one of which was to set the limit of memory at 640kb, which everyone at the time said was ridiculous. CP/M had no such restrictions, and could be expanded without limit. To overcome his error he had to "invent" Expanded Memory. Even to this day, Windows is hampered by that decision, and the law suit from Digital Research suing him for copyright infingement went on for many years until the owner died.
Getting back to the number of strings, you can actually play a lot on a one string instrument without any pedals or knee levers.  |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 4 Nov 2014 8:00 pm
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Let's not rewrite computer history, Alan. There are several inaccuracies in your post about Gates (above) that we can debate in the Computers section if you want. Let's stay on the Pedal Steel topic here.
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 5 Nov 2014 12:01 am
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10 strings may be enough for some, perhaps even most players, but they are not enough for everybody.
They are not enough for Susan, nor for me. One size does not fit all.
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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Ken Campbell
From:
Ferndale, Montana
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Posted 5 Nov 2014 4:52 am
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| Mike Perlowin wrote: |
10 strings may be enough for some, perhaps even most players, but they are not enough for everybody.
They are not enough for Susan, nor for me. One size does not fit all. |
Well said. |
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David Mason
From:
Cambridge, MD, USA
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Posted 5 Nov 2014 8:15 am
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| One phrase steelers hear in common with guitar lore is "let the bass player play that note" only these days I mostly am the bass player, so when I'm playing steel he's shirking his duties... and in practicing especially I want to hear some root or at least some guide notes for harmony & tuning. Slowly but surely my Pigtronix Infinity looper is working it's way up in importance, you can erase or at least switch away from even a one-note loop as fast as you can record it, which is almost like have backwards precognition, IFYKWIM. |
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Pete Burak
From:
Portland, OR USA
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Posted 5 Nov 2014 8:24 am
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fwiw, I'm thinkin' I could've played any gig I've ever played in my life on an S8.
I have an S8U 5x4 which covers the "Meat" of most of the 9th/6th style country, country-rock, and jam-band type of stuff I play.
With that said I do a Travis/Atkins thing on E9th that pretty much requires strings 12-6 on a 12-string (Uni).
I could live without strings 9 and 10 on the standard C6th neck, though. You don't need 'em for most Western Swing or Hawiian, and I'm not real big on the Boo-Wha sound or low end Jazz chords myself. Also, Nobody has ever asked me to kick of Purple Haze on Pedal Steel. |
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Charlie McDonald
From:
out of the blue
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Posted 5 Nov 2014 8:41 am
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| b0b wrote: |
| Also, a pedal steel doesn't need bass notes. |
I can think of nothing better than kicking off Purple Haze on steel, the seamless downward glissando.
I do think twelve strings was enough.
Any more and the extras would be chromatic, and my thumb don't damp, and I'm a bass player. 
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Those that say don't know; those that know don't say.--Buddy Emmons |
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Pete Burak
From:
Portland, OR USA
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Posted 5 Nov 2014 8:56 am
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It's done with P8 on the 6th neck.
I agree it's fun as hell to play on Steel! |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Pete Burak
From:
Portland, OR USA
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Posted 5 Nov 2014 9:34 am
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| b0b wrote: |
| I don't hear anything in Purple Haze that couldn't be played on my S-8. |
That's cool.
I don't have the low E on my 8-string tuning.
Am I thinking of Foxy Lady?
Last edited by Pete Burak on 5 Nov 2014 9:42 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Charlie McDonald
From:
out of the blue
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Posted 5 Nov 2014 9:37 am
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| b0b wrote: |
| I don't hear anything in Purple Haze that couldn't be played on my S-8. |
Except for the lower octave.
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Those that say don't know; those that know don't say.--Buddy Emmons |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 5 Nov 2014 9:51 am
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It doesn't go below E. I have a low E on pedal 3.
Here's that E7#9 chord that Hendrix uses:
| Tab: |
note
F# __________
D ___3(LKV)_ G
B ___3______ D
A ___0(P3)__ G#
F# __________
D ___0(LKV)_ E
B __________
G ___0(P3)__ E |
There's another open string position using P3+P4, too.
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William Liemandt
From:
New Mexico
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Posted 13 Nov 2014 11:35 am
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| Psalm 33:2 "...make melody to Him with an instrument of ten strings." |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 13 Nov 2014 1:49 pm
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| William Liemandt wrote: |
| Psalm 33:2 "...make melody to Him with an instrument of ten strings." |
Where does that leave us 12 string players?
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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Susan Alcorn
From:
Baltimore, MD, USA
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Posted 13 Nov 2014 1:57 pm
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Ay, twelve strings - that be the instrument of the devil, don't ya know. Beware all you ten stringers, don't mess with an extra two strings - it'll ruin your technique, and you can forget about any muscle memory you might have had. You'll go through Hades and back (if you're lucky) - take it from me!
_________________
www.susanalcorn.net
"So this is how you swim inward. So this is how you flow outwards. So this is how you pray."
- Mary Oliver |
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Storm Rosson
From:
Silver City, NM. USA
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Posted 13 Nov 2014 2:20 pm
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| That's a good one Susan ..LMAO..oh and Mike, I have heard u pick so I don't think you should worry to much...LOL...Stormy |
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Stuart Legg
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Posted 14 Nov 2014 12:45 pm
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| A person should not limit one's strings based on archaic 640K thinking since in theory there should be exactly as many strings as there are particles in the universe. |
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Jim Pitman
From:
Waterbury Ctr. VT 05677 USA
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Posted 22 Nov 2014 5:21 am
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Can we stop at 11?
I'd miss the E root on the bass of my U12. |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 22 Nov 2014 9:52 am
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The late Al Vescovo decided that even 12 strings were not enough, and switched from 12 to 14.
As I said previously, one size does not fit all.
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 22 Nov 2014 10:09 am
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| Mike Perlowin wrote: |
The late Al Vescovo decided that even 12 strings were not enough, and switched from 12 to 14.
As I said previously, one size does not fit all. |
Traditional steel players have 20 strings. I think that 10 should be enough. There's a lot of duplication on the two necks, and a lot of notes that don't need a dedicated string because you can get them with pedals. 
_________________
-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 22 Nov 2014 11:08 am
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| William Liemandt wrote: |
| Psalm 33:2 "...make melody to Him with an instrument of ten strings." |
I should point out that the instrument that was being referred to at the time was the lyre. 
(David left his pedal steel behind when he left home.) |
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