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Topic: Learning songs that you have no enthusiasm for |
Curt Trisko
From:
St. Paul, Minnesota, USA
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Posted 30 Sep 2014 7:47 pm |
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Until now, I've been lucky enough not to have this problem. I don't play in a band and all of my jamming partners have been more interested in just plain jamming instead of learning songs. My favorite, most regular jamming buddy recently moved away and to replace him I posted a Craigslist ad.
One of the responses is a couple of cousins who both play guitar. They suggested we play some Ryan Adams songs and I agreed. That kind of music isn't too far off from my personal tastes. Now I have to learn the pedal steel parts for those songs. I've listened to them a few times and can't get into it. It's going to be a chore to learn and it irritates me because until now, music has always been a part of my life that is strictly about enjoyment.
All you guys that play in bands are probably scoffing at me now, and that's fine because I'm not the kind of person who would choose that lifestyle for myself. I feel like I need an attitude adjustment if I'm going to make this work. But it's not so simple for me mentally because I don't truly believe I have an attitude problem to begin with. I enjoy music deeply and I enjoy playing it. I just don't like when it feels like a chore. I have a job that is methodical and analytical. When I come home from work, I don't want to use that same part of my brain for pedal steel. Music has always been a rejuvenating force for me, not something that drains me.
In fact, the jamming buddy that I'm trying to replace insisted on keeping it fun. It was no less technical, just more in-touch. He's a guitar player who went to music school. The dispassionate style of teaching there caused him to lose his desire to play for a while, defeating the purpose of going to music school to begin with.
What attitude does it take to commit to learning songs that don't do anything for you without it sucking the joy out of all music for you? |
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 30 Sep 2014 8:06 pm
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| Are you looking for a legal attitude adjustment, or just an attitude adjustment? |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Posted 30 Sep 2014 8:07 pm Re: Learning songs that you have no enthusiasm for
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| Curt Trisko wrote: |
| What attitude does it take to commit to learning songs that don't do anything for you without it sucking the joy out of all music for you? |
IMHO, it takes an attitude of service. A reverence for the music and a commitment to serve the song, to bring what gifts you have to make the song sound the best it possibly can be at this time and place in the world. And by so doing, to touch others.
That's probably pretty similar to what space top studio musicians have to put themselves in every day, or the guys like Tommy White, who are in the Opry house band. They might hate a particular song but they will give it 150% while it is being played, and they will woodshed for years and years to be able to do that at a moment's notice.
On a more mundane plane, you can set challenges for yourself. You might not care for the tune, but there might be a part that is tricky to play cleanly or up to tempo. Woodshed the heck out of those parts, bringing them gradually up to tempo, and then really, genuinely look forward to playing that tune when it gets called, just so you can field-test your new skill and continue to hone it in successive performances. (Chances are you'll find other places to use that idea or technique, even in a different song that you love!)
It reminds me of when I spent a year living in Switzerland back in my 20's. I always hated winter and couldn't imagine how I would get through it in Zurich. Then it dawned on me: I needed to find something to look forward to about winter! Well, here I was in the foothills of the Alps, so I did what any sensible person would do: I learned to ski! Developing my skill allowed me to turn something I hate into something I really looked forward to.
So, FWIW, my answer to your question is: learn to ski! 
_________________
www.JimCohen.com
www.RonstadtRevue.com
www.BeatsWalkin.com |
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Rich Upright
From:
Florida, USA
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Posted 30 Sep 2014 8:20 pm
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| I really can't stand any new country, so I seek out bands that play the old stuff. |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Posted 30 Sep 2014 8:24 pm Re: Learning songs that you have no enthusiasm for
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| Jim Cohen wrote: |
| Curt Trisko wrote: |
| What attitude does it take to commit to learning songs that don't do anything for you without it sucking the joy out of all music for you? |
IMHO, it takes an attitude of service. A reverence for the music and a commitment to serve the song, to bring what gifts you have to make the song sound the best it possibly can be at this time and place in the world. And by so doing, to touch others.
That's probably pretty similar to what space top studio musicians have to put themselves in every day, or the guys like Tommy White, who are in the Opry house band. They might hate a particular song but they will give it 150% while it is being played, and they will woodshed for years and years to be able to do that at a moment's notice.
On a more mundane plane, you can set challenges for yourself. You might not care for the tune, but there might be a part that is tricky to play cleanly or up to tempo. Woodshed the heck out of those parts, bringing them gradually up to tempo, and then really, genuinely look forward to playing that tune when it gets called, just so you can field-test your new skill and continue to hone it in successive performances. (Chances are you'll find other places to use that idea or technique, even in a different song that you love!)
It reminds me of when I spent a year living in Switzerland back in my 20's. I always hated winter and couldn't imagine how I would get through it in Zurich. Then it dawned on me: I needed to find something to look forward to about winter! Well, here I was in the foothills of the Alps, so I did what any sensible person would do: I learned to ski! Developing my skill allowed me to turn something I hate into something I really looked forward to.
So, FWIW, my answer to your question is to do what the professionals do: learn to ski! |
_________________
www.JimCohen.com
www.RonstadtRevue.com
www.BeatsWalkin.com |
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Curt Trisko
From:
St. Paul, Minnesota, USA
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Posted 30 Sep 2014 8:30 pm Re: Learning songs that you have no enthusiasm for
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| Jim Cohen wrote: |
| Curt Trisko wrote: |
| What attitude does it take to commit to learning songs that don't do anything for you without it sucking the joy out of all music for you? |
They might hate a particular song but they will give it 150% while it is being played, and they will woodshed for years and years to be able to do that at a moment's notice. |
The woodshedding part is what has my panties in a bunch. Sitting down with these songs and picking them apart in order to duplicate the steel parts takes a lot of focus and patience. For a song that I really like, it's really fun to discover for myself how the steel player composed his part. For a steel part that I have no appreciation for, I may as well be dissecting an earthworm. Makes me ask why I do this for a hobby.
You know what, I bet as long as I get close to the steel parts in the song, I can improvise my own parts and they won't even notice. |
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Barry Blackwood
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Posted 30 Sep 2014 8:35 pm
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| Quote: |
My favorite, most regular jamming buddy recently moved away and to replace him I posted a Craigslist ad.
One of the responses is a couple of cousins who both play guitar. |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Posted 30 Sep 2014 8:37 pm Re: Learning songs that you have no enthusiasm for
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| Curt Trisko wrote: |
For a steel part that I have no appreciation for, I may as well be dissecting an earthworm...
You know what, I bet as long as I get close to the steel parts in the song, I can improvise my own parts and they won't even notice. |
OK, I get that, Curt. But there are always ways to play mind games with yourself that benefit you. For example, if the original steel part, um, shall we say, "sucks" (), imagine that you had gotten the call for the original studio session -- and they even gave you an advance mix of the track and 2 weeks to write the best damn solo you could come up with. Do it! Make the song better, man, make it your own. Get some skin in the game; give yourself a reason to like it.
Your friend,
Pollyanna
_________________
www.JimCohen.com
www.RonstadtRevue.com
www.BeatsWalkin.com |
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Curt Trisko
From:
St. Paul, Minnesota, USA
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Posted 30 Sep 2014 8:52 pm
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I think that's a good compromise, but it might make me an a$$hole to the people I'm playing with. My Craigslist ad had full disclosure that I was more interested in creating pedal steel parts than miming songs.
Believe me Jim, I'm the kind of person that tries to find something to like in everyone and everything. The reason for that is so that I don't have to fake it for sake of politeness. That's the situation I find myself in now except it's in the musical part of my life, which I don't want it to spoil.
If I try too hard to like a pedal steel part that just doesn't strike me, I might forget why I like the pedal steel parts that I do so much. |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 30 Sep 2014 11:57 pm
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| no one's holding a gun to your head. if you don't want to do it, don't do it! |
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James Sission
From:
Sugar Land,Texas USA
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Posted 1 Oct 2014 12:18 am
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| Under the circumstances, I would politely pass on jamming with them and try to find someone else with a more similar taste in music. In a band situation, one where the player is committed and wants to remain in, it may become necessary to learn something that you don’t care for. For just a jam, I see no reason in putting yourself through all the frustration and turning something you enjoy into something you would rather not be doing. Just tell them that after consideration, you don’t think you’re a good fit for the situation and move on. |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 1 Oct 2014 2:59 am
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If you said your aim was creating parts rather than miming covers, I wouldn't even listen to what the session cat played.
Listen to the rest of the song and write your own part: that's what you SAID you wanted.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Joachim Kettner
From:
Germany
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Posted 1 Oct 2014 3:20 am
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The attitude that you may learn something. Back in the late eighties i had only been playing for a few weeks at home learning from the Bruce Bouton course, I joined a band. They were not great musicians and neither was I good at playing steel, of course. But I knew I wanted to learn, so I stuck with them and they stuchk with me, at least for a while.
_________________
Fender Kingman, Sierra Crown D-10, Evans Amplifier, Soup Cube. |
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Curt Trisko
From:
St. Paul, Minnesota, USA
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Posted 1 Oct 2014 10:12 am
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| Joachim Kettner wrote: |
| The attitude that you may learn something. |
True. One thing I really need to learn, and which you can probably never learn enough of, is how to back a singer during verses. It usually sounds pretty generic, so it's something that I haven't latched onto yet. The fills, solos, etc. are too easy to focus on. With jamming with my buddy, there was never any singing so I haven't develop this part of my playing. |
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rodger_mcbride
From:
Minnesota
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Posted 1 Oct 2014 10:44 am
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Check out the classic country jam at the creek side community center in Bloomington, MN, 98th & Penn ave. every Sat. From 9 am to 12:30 or so. Great bunch of real country music lovers and lots of good opportunity to learn how to back up singers. Improvising your solos and backup is ok.
Rodger |
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Curt Trisko
From:
St. Paul, Minnesota, USA
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Posted 1 Oct 2014 7:55 pm
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I put in a session of breaking down and learning on e of the songs this evening. It wasn't a bad experience after all. I don't like the song any better, but once you break it down into pieces it doesn't matter as much anyway.
There's a couple parts that have a single-note run in the pedal steel. I got two things out of it: 1) trying to decide where to play it on the fretboard. The default it to play it in the chord positions, but why not do it all on one string or other combinations? Playing it all on one string let's you phrase it exactly how you want; 2) making it into dyads. This is interesting from a music theory perspective. Sometimes I'd just play it in a way that pops in my head and them reverse engineer it later to figure out the music theory behind it. When you're only playing two notes, it could be a lot of different kinds of chords. I suppose you have to identify it by how it relates to the chord the rest of the band is playing. Playing softer notes in the spaces between the dyad adds a whole 'nother level too. |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Tom Gorr
From:
Three Hills, Alberta
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Posted 1 Oct 2014 9:41 pm
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I look for reciprosity...not a formula for every situation.
Don't get caught in the trap of doing what you don't enjoy for a significant period of time, it will wear you down.
Last edited by Tom Gorr on 2 Oct 2014 9:34 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 2 Oct 2014 3:56 am
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As a musician, this is a musician thing not a Steel thing. It is never wrong to turn down a gig that you are not in line with. IF the music doesn't interest you..don't take the gig.
BUT if you accept the gig then you put 100% in to playing the best you can...regardless of the songs...evidently your friends want you...and the Steel..that's huge !
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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Curt Trisko
From:
St. Paul, Minnesota, USA
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Posted 2 Oct 2014 6:57 am
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| I've already made up my mind that this kind of thing is something I have to do. Otherwise I may as well just permanently attached my steel to the floor of my apartment. I'm too much of a "bedroom player" the way it is. |
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Mark van Allen
From:
Watkinsville, Ga. USA
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Posted 2 Oct 2014 8:47 am
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I can tend to be a bit lazy about things like active practice as far as copying records goes, I started out copying a lot from recorded players, but the second band I was in was all original music and I got onto a path of having to make up my own phrases and looking to other instruments like trombone for inspiration.
Eventually I did a long stretch playing guitar in Top 40 and Rock cover bands, and It was a job requirement to learn the recorded parts from a great disparity of different stylists. I saw those efforts as extremely good for my "chops" as I had to absorb a great deal of material I wouldn't have otherwise even listened to, let alone copied, and I did see it impacting my ability and pool of ideas.
I brought that back to my steel quest, and while I still don't greatly enjoy copying records, I learn something new every time I dig into a recorded part, even if it's "I don't think I would have played that."
I have a story I often tell my students about listening to a Lloyd Green backup track on a Calico record from the late 70's and hearing a lick that just knocked me out, deciding I just needed to figure that one out and getting out my steel to suss out what sounded like a fairly complex run... which turned out to be a straight ascending major scale, just played from a new position (to me) and against a portion of the chord progression that made it sound more complex than it was. I still use that run at least once on every gig. And I remember that experience whenever I baulk at learning a part I'm not enthused about. Might just provide another keeper...
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Stop by the Steel Store at: www.markvanallen.com
www.musicfarmstudio.com |
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John McClung
From:
Olympia WA, USA
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Posted 2 Oct 2014 3:30 pm
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Always ask yourself, "What can I learn from this song?"
I've done quite a bit of playing with one band that does nothing but new "country," I still held my nose since the songs stunk, but focused on what I could learn or get better at; mostly it was power chords, minor pentatonic scales, and getting comfortable playing songs in Db and Ab, and songs with prominent b7 chords.
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E9 INSTRUCTION
▪️ If you want to have an ongoing discussion, please email me, don't use the Forum messaging which I detest! steelguitarlessons@earthlink.net |
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Bud Angelotti
From:
Larryville, NJ, USA
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Posted 2 Oct 2014 3:59 pm
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Make 'em play a song you like, how's about "I Did It My Way"
Better yet, just do it your way. 
_________________
Just 'cause I look stupid, don't mean I'm not. |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 2 Oct 2014 4:02 pm
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I've played too much music in my life that I didn't enjoy for a paycheck, but I won't do it anymore. I want to spend whatever years of competency I have left satisfying my own musical curiosity, regardless of whether or not it pleases anyone else.
_________________
http://www.steelinstruction.com/
http://mikeneer.com |
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Bud Angelotti
From:
Larryville, NJ, USA
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Posted 2 Oct 2014 4:46 pm
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Right on Mike!
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Just 'cause I look stupid, don't mean I'm not. |
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