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Topic: Why Rods? |
Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 30 Sep 2014 11:49 am |
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Push a pedal and see what happens to the rods. They bend. Turn the pedal steel over and, assuming you don't have a cable model, push a pedal with your hand and see what happens to the rods. They bend.
Why are pedal steels built with rods and not with angle iron, (which would only have microscopic bending), when angle iron would give you direct contact between foot and strings without any take-up?  |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 30 Sep 2014 12:09 pm
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| how about I-beams, alan? |
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Lee Dassow
From:
Jefferson, Georgia USA
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Posted 30 Sep 2014 1:06 pm
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With angle iron it might be a tad heavy Alan. T.L.
_________________
2015 Mullen D-10 Royal Precision 9x8,-1990 BMI S-10 5x5-1972 Silver face Fender pro Reverb amp,-1965 Fender Super Reverb Amp,- 1966 Fender Showman Amp Two 15" JBL speakers,- 2006 65 Fender Twin Reverb reissue Amp,- 1982 Peavey Session 500 amp,-1978 Peavey Session 400,Goodrich Volume Pedals,John Pearse Steel Bars, |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 30 Sep 2014 1:49 pm
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I don't see why a rod moving under tension should bend if it has proper pivots at each end. (A push rod might, but I have no experience of those.) A pull rod will bend only if one end is seized or badly designed. Do you have a picture of a bendy rod, Alan?
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 30 Sep 2014 2:14 pm
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Yes Ian, I have pictures of bent rods, but bent rods usually come from packing and unpacking. What you would need to see would be a movie of them bending, and there's no facility for posting movies on the Forum.
Angle iron doesn't have to be heavy, Lee, if you use aluminium. Aluminium angle iron would be stronger and lighter than steel rods. |
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Les Cargill
From:
Oklahoma City, Ok, USA
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Posted 30 Sep 2014 2:59 pm
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| It doesn't matter if they bend. We're using them as if they were cables. Rods are just less sloppy than cables. |
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Ron Pruter
From:
Arizona, USA
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Posted 30 Sep 2014 3:18 pm
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Of coarse they bend because they are being pulled on their side if they are L bent through a single bracket bell crank, but the double type of bell cranks, where the pull rod is being pulled straight back, right through the center, doesn't bend. Yes, No? RP
_________________
Emmons SKH Le Grande, '73 Fender P/J bass, Tick tack bass, Regal high strung, USA Nashville 112. |
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Lee Dassow
From:
Jefferson, Georgia USA
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Posted 30 Sep 2014 3:49 pm
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RON, I think Alan is referring to the pedal rods. T.L.
_________________
2015 Mullen D-10 Royal Precision 9x8,-1990 BMI S-10 5x5-1972 Silver face Fender pro Reverb amp,-1965 Fender Super Reverb Amp,- 1966 Fender Showman Amp Two 15" JBL speakers,- 2006 65 Fender Twin Reverb reissue Amp,- 1982 Peavey Session 500 amp,-1978 Peavey Session 400,Goodrich Volume Pedals,John Pearse Steel Bars, |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 30 Sep 2014 4:24 pm
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| Alan Brookes wrote: |
Yes Ian, I have pictures of bent rods, but bent rods usually come from packing and unpacking. What you would need to see would be a movie of them bending, and there's no facility for posting movies on the Forum.
Angle iron doesn't have to be heavy, Lee, if you use aluminium. Aluminium angle iron would be stronger and lighter than steel rods. |
Packing and unpacking causes bent rods? How do you take your guitar out of the case? Do you grab a handful of rods and pull it out?
While there is no direct way to post videos on here (something I'm glad isn't available), you can post one on YouTube and post the link here.
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Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, NV400, NV112 . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 30 Sep 2014 5:45 pm
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| Alan Brookes wrote: |
Angle iron doesn't have to be heavy, Lee, if you use aluminium. Aluminium angle iron would be stronger and lighter than steel rods. |
Aluminum angle iron?
Oh yes, I see...you must mean something as light as iron, but as strong as aluminum.  |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 30 Sep 2014 6:55 pm
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| If a guitar is set up right, there's no bending in the pedal rods, unless they have been damaged and are no longer straight. Or if something is not "straight pull." When I worked at Performance, everything was carefully designed to pull straight, pedal rods and pull rods. I assembled them using machinist's rules and micrometers. |
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Niels Andrews
From:
Salinas, California, USA
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Posted 1 Oct 2014 9:48 am
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On an all pull guitar the rods are not under compression, so why would bend matter?
_________________
Die with Memories. Not Dreams.
Good Stuff like Zum S-12, Wolfe Resoport
MSA SS-12, Telonics Combo. |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 1 Oct 2014 9:57 am
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Niels, if you watch the undercarriage of these modern Al-prodded guitars, if they have an non-straight pulls, they flex to take up slack.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 1 Oct 2014 10:14 am
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| Richard Sinkler wrote: |
| ...Packing and unpacking causes bent rods? How do you take your guitar out of the case? Do you grab a handful of rods and pull it out?... |
Never. But you're right. All the bent rods on my pedal steels were there when I bought the instruments, and could only have been caused by previous owners not taking care. The only other causes I can think of are someone missing a pedal and putting his leg between the pedals, which would push rods outwards, or bad storage of the rods when they're not on the guitar. |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 1 Oct 2014 10:17 am
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Alan,
Aluminum angle will bend even easier than the steel rods. Now,,, Titanium,,,,,,,,,......... |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 1 Oct 2014 10:22 am
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My Emmons has (had? Haven't seen it in 25 years) three bent pedal rods from a dancer's head as she fell.
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Jeff Scott Brown
From:
O'Fallon Missouri, USA
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Posted 1 Oct 2014 10:51 am
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| Lane Gray wrote: |
| My Emmons has (had? Haven't seen it in 25 years) three bent pedal rods from a dancer's head as she fell. |
Headbanging to pedal steel. 
_________________
GFI Ultra S10 Keyless
Peavey Nashville 112
Goodrich L120, BJS, Peterson StroboPlus HD |
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Dennis Saydak
From:
Manitoba, Canada
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Posted 1 Oct 2014 1:06 pm
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Carbon Fiber tubing(available at hobby shops) can be slipped over pedal rods to eliminate bending from any source. It is used to prevent push rods from bending in model airplanes.
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Dennis
Just when you think you're getting ahead in the rat race, the rats get faster. |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 1 Oct 2014 1:25 pm
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I'll bear that in mind when I build my first flying steel!
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 1 Oct 2014 4:38 pm
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| John Billings wrote: |
| Alan, Aluminum angle will bend even easier than the steel rods. Now Titanium... |
I wouldn't have thought a short length of angle iron, less than two feet long, would bend. I hope not, because I've bought ten yards of it for a pedal steel project I'm about to start working on.
Titanium? Isn't that heavy and expensive? I don't have NASA's budget.  |
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Will Cowell
From:
Cambridgeshire, UK
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Posted 2 Oct 2014 2:22 am
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Alan, Titanium is expensive, yes, but heavy? Where on earth do you get that? It was used in planes because it is lighter than steel, by a long way, and stronger.
Specific gravity of steel is 7.85, titanium 4.5, aluminium 2.72 (6061 alloy). Weight for strength, Ti is better than either steel or Al.
_________________
Williams 700 series keyless U12,
Sierra keyless U14, Eezzee-Slide & BJS bars
Moth-eaten old Marshall 150 combo
Roland Cube 80XL, Peterson Strobo+HD,
EarthQuaker Despatch Master for reverb / delay |
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Willie Sims
From:
PADUCAH, KY, USA
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Posted 2 Oct 2014 11:43 am
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| I have noticed on my) Emmons Legrand that the pedal rods give a little when thestop on the guitar is all of the way down. I decided the rods were not perfectly in line with the pedal connection point,, I've bent them just a little and that' seem to help some. The only solution I can think of is to design a pedal stop that is adjustable that attaches to the pedal rack underneath each pedal... Then when the pedal is depressed to the stop on the guitar, you adjust pedal stop to stop exactly when. both stops are engaged.. It will work if properly designed. |
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Joe Naylor
From:
Avondale, Arizona, USA
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Posted 2 Oct 2014 12:44 pm Would any of you pay lots more for a steel?
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Titanium is very expensive and difficult to cut - which would add time in addition to material cost.
Angle ? how would set up an 8 and 8 for example since the rods have little or NO room
Amazing - I think some should actually "TRY to build a steel guitar" with all these ideas the price would sky rocket.
Oh by the way, if I remember MSA on this last design (carbon fiber steelguitar) they WERE going to make all titanium - they quickly found out the $$$$$ got out of sight quickly.
my 2 cents
Joe
_________________
Joe Naylor, Avondale, AZ (Phoenix) Announcer/Emcee owner www.steelseat.com *** OFFERING SEATS AND Effects cases with or without legs and other stuff ****** -Desert Rose Guitar S-10, Life Member of the Arizona Carport Pickers Assoc., Southwest Steel Guitar Assoc., Texas Steel Guitar Assoc., GA Steel Guitar Assoc., KS Steel Guitar Assoc. (Asleep at the Steel) tag line willed to me by a close late friend RIP |
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Bill Nevins
From:
st.charles,Missouri, USA
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Posted 2 Oct 2014 1:06 pm pedal rods
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| I have a williams sd-10,where the ball joint connector connects to the pedal,on the williams it is on top.if you dont have the slot in the ball joint lined up correctly if will cause the rod to bend as you push the pedal.i found this out one night when i raised one pedal slightly it was still upside down in the case,i pushed the pedal to see if it was moved enough and the slot wasnt lined up right and it wants to pull the rod toward the back instead of straight down.I called mister rudolph and he told me the slot has to be lined up correctly..... |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 3 Oct 2014 1:22 am
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That's a good example of what I meant when I said "if it's pivoted correctly".
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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