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Topic: Truly Universal Tuning |
Stefan Robertson
From:
Hertfordshire, UK
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Posted 21 Sep 2014 1:36 pm |
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So this is a follow up to a previous post I made some while go.
Universal Tuning thoughts.
The challenge I set myself or any anyone else who was up to it was defining a truly universal tuning that can handle any chord and genre you throw at it Like a guitar.
I believe my 12 string Universal tuning called: The Theory Tuning" is it.
12 ---->>>1 STRINGS
TUNED AS FOLLOWS:
C, E, G, B, D, F, A, C, D, Eb, G A
1. A
2. G
3. Eb
4. D
5. C
6. A
7. F
8. D
9. B
10. G
11. E
12. C
The challenge is can you find any chord that we use musically in any genre and I'll see if the tuning can handle it. The goal is to achieve ALL notes if so desired.
So I open up the floor to my amazing Lap Steel Guitar family on here.
The revolution is here and the evolution starts now.
_________________
Stefan
Bill Hatcher custom 12 string Lap Steel Guitar
E13#9/F secrets: https://thelapsteelguitarist.wordpress.com
"Give it up for The Lap Steel Guitarist" |
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Stefan Robertson
From:
Hertfordshire, UK
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Posted 21 Sep 2014 1:40 pm
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to make it more interesting I will record and play the chords or progressions for your listening pleasure.
May we keep Steelin' alive.
_________________
Stefan
Bill Hatcher custom 12 string Lap Steel Guitar
E13#9/F secrets: https://thelapsteelguitarist.wordpress.com
"Give it up for The Lap Steel Guitarist" |
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Brian McGaughey
From:
Orcas Island, WA USA
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Posted 21 Sep 2014 6:19 pm
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Stefan,
You should record a simple ditty that we all would recognize so as to hear the "all the notes in all the chords" (my words) approach you're going for.
There is a certain pure and clean idea in your approach (I've seen your posts about this before) but I'm afraid I'd have to be sold on it. The only way to do that is to present something that demonstrates your idea and then see if people are moved by it or not. Ideas in theory sometimes don't work in practice.
I guess I'm thinking that a guitar strung and tuned either spanish or any lap tuning you prefer will never be a piano which is what is seems your approach anyway is going for.
I've gone the other direction and seldom on pedal steel strike more than 2 string simultaneously unless playing solo.
Let's hear it! |
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Adrienne Clasky
From:
Florida, USA
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Posted 21 Sep 2014 6:36 pm
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Dm7/ Gm6/A7#5/ Cm/ A7b9#5/ A7/ Bb dim/ Eb9
Can't wait! |
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Adrienne Clasky
From:
Florida, USA
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Posted 22 Sep 2014 4:42 am
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| How do the string gauges compare to Reece's tuning? |
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Christopher Woitach
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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David Mason
From:
Cambridge, MD, USA
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Posted 23 Sep 2014 5:58 am
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I think that posting tunings vertically, initially, right from the start makes more sense, quite comprehensively. Given that the large majority of people seem to write them low-to-high - but then an authority like Andy Volk will come along and publish a whole book with 'em high-to-low, throwing your brain into "twist mode", it's easily the clearest thing to do. It also, for me at least, makes it MUCH easier to visualize some extensions and "think slants" prior to charting the whole thing. There may be some people who naturally think high-to-low, but it's not how music is built and by posting it vertically it's immediately accurate straight off the bat.
C
E
G
B
D
F
A
C
D
Eb
G
...how odd! 
(and you're not "wasting bandwidth", certainly not compared to some moronic dancing GIF that's funny just until until they crash  This is what bandwidth is FOR.... These discussions can get pretty involved, with options and changes etc, and it's SO much easier that way.) |
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Stefan Robertson
From:
Hertfordshire, UK
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Posted 23 Sep 2014 3:05 pm
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| Adrienne Clasky wrote: |
Dm7/ Gm6/A7#5/ Cm/ A7b9#5/ A7/ Bb dim/ Eb9
Can't wait! |
Nice Chords but the A7b9#5 sounds weird in this progression Would you prefer me to record this in a progression or as stand alone chords.
Also I couldn't mind embellishing some of those basic chords like throwing in that Dim7 if needed. Butits up to you if you would prefer a simple diminished.
Let me know. I am travelling around the UK for work purposes but have my Lap Steel Guitar with me but no amplification in the hotel room. Am willing to post anyway if you aren interested in hearing.
_________________
Stefan
Bill Hatcher custom 12 string Lap Steel Guitar
E13#9/F secrets: https://thelapsteelguitarist.wordpress.com
"Give it up for The Lap Steel Guitarist" |
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Stefan Robertson
From:
Hertfordshire, UK
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Posted 23 Sep 2014 3:07 pm
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| David Mason wrote: |
I think that posting tunings vertically, initially, right from the start makes more sense, quite comprehensively. Given that the large majority of people seem to write them low-to-high - but then an authority like Andy Volk will come along and publish a whole book with 'em high-to-low, throwing your brain into "twist mode", it's easily the clearest thing to do. It also, for me at least, makes it MUCH easier to visualize some extensions and "think slants" prior to charting the whole thing. There may be some people who naturally think high-to-low, but it's not how music is built and by posting it vertically it's immediately accurate straight off the bat.
C
E
G
B
D
F
A
C
D
Eb
G
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Don't forget the A on the first string.
C
E
G
B
D
F
A
C
D
Eb
G
A
_________________
Stefan
Bill Hatcher custom 12 string Lap Steel Guitar
E13#9/F secrets: https://thelapsteelguitarist.wordpress.com
"Give it up for The Lap Steel Guitarist" |
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Stefan Robertson
From:
Hertfordshire, UK
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Posted 23 Sep 2014 3:16 pm
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| Christopher Woitach wrote: |
| No full diminished 7th chord? |
of Course there is.
_________________
Stefan
Bill Hatcher custom 12 string Lap Steel Guitar
E13#9/F secrets: https://thelapsteelguitarist.wordpress.com
"Give it up for The Lap Steel Guitarist" |
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Stefan Robertson
From:
Hertfordshire, UK
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Posted 23 Sep 2014 3:29 pm
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The quality is terrible as there is no amp or direct input. But you'll get the idea.
Full chord notes
and yes I can use a dim7 but it sounded horrible in that progression. m7b5 sounded better.
Let me know if you actually wanted a progression played rather than chord by chord choice.
https://soundcloud.com/ilapsteel/chord-test-without-amp
_________________
Stefan
Bill Hatcher custom 12 string Lap Steel Guitar
E13#9/F secrets: https://thelapsteelguitarist.wordpress.com
"Give it up for The Lap Steel Guitarist" |
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Stefan Robertson
From:
Hertfordshire, UK
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Posted 23 Sep 2014 3:48 pm
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Here is a better progression set of examples with 1-6-2-5-1.
I even added the Night Life with CMaj9/Eb9/AbMaj9/Db11
https://soundcloud.com/ilapsteel/chord-progression-test-1-6-2-5-1-no-amp-hotel-room
T give a better idea. Was kind of stumped in my C#dim to Ddim build so I threw in a Ddim7 to show its possible.
Obviously these are just off the head 16251 as examples. Will post actual recordings of songs with full chords like Georgia by Ray Charles etc. Lots of fun now being able to play any chord I need.
Exxxxcited.
_________________
Stefan
Bill Hatcher custom 12 string Lap Steel Guitar
E13#9/F secrets: https://thelapsteelguitarist.wordpress.com
"Give it up for The Lap Steel Guitarist" |
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 23 Sep 2014 4:09 pm
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| David Mason wrote: |
| I think that posting tunings vertically, initially, right from the start makes more sense, quite comprehensively. Given that the large majority of people seem to write them low-to-high - but then an authority like Andy Volk will come along and publish a whole book with 'em high-to-low, throwing your brain into "twist mode", it's easily the clearest thing to do. |
Clearest? How about one of these:
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Stefan Robertson
From:
Hertfordshire, UK
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Posted 23 Sep 2014 4:15 pm
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| Christopher Woitach wrote: |
| No full diminished 7th chord? |
The Dim7th chords are right there in order. C, Eb, Gb, A(Bbb). Look carefully padawan and don't just bend your mind. Bend one string and you shall see it all become clear.
Reece (RIP) was so close its crazy. He was approaching it a little different granted but the notes are almost the same. Just his order is a little bizarre and he was missing the Eb giving me the m6 and the m6add9 chords.
I hope I can do this tuning, the universal concept he was always pushing for and his legacy proud some day.
_________________
Stefan
Bill Hatcher custom 12 string Lap Steel Guitar
E13#9/F secrets: https://thelapsteelguitarist.wordpress.com
"Give it up for The Lap Steel Guitarist" |
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Andy Volk
From:
Boston, MA
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Posted 23 Sep 2014 4:40 pm
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| Quote: |
| but then an authority like Andy Volk will come along and publish a whole book with 'em high-to-low, throwing your brain into "twist mode" |
You ought to choose your authorities more carefully!
_________________
Steel Guitar Books! Website: www.volkmediabooks.com |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Posted 23 Sep 2014 4:57 pm
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I have always listed and stated steel guitar tunings high-low. That's how they were listed in the early days of steel guitar and that's how I learned it in the 60s and 70s. I have a theory as to how this developed. A popular early Hawaiian guitar tuning was A major with E on top. Other tunings evolved from there, E7, C6, etc... most of them with high E, string 1. Maybe because that was the constant in all the tunings steel players would name the tuning starting with that string? ...string1
_________________
My Site / My YouTube Channel
25 Songs C6 Lap Steel / 25 MORE Songs C6 Lap Steel / 16 Songs, C6, A6, B11 / 60 Popular Melodies E9 Pedal Steel |
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Adrienne Clasky
From:
Florida, USA
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Posted 23 Sep 2014 7:29 pm
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The chords sounded lovely, but I tend to play low. When I first read your tuning, I assumed the C, G and F chords were on the low strings. Also, the chords I posted were from Anouman, Django Reinhardt. I was too lazy to type the repeats.
Intriguing tuning. Wish I had a second 12 string to try it. |
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Stefan Robertson
From:
Hertfordshire, UK
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Posted 23 Sep 2014 10:36 pm
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Sure I can play them on the low strings if you prefer. Was just trying to show a small sample of options.
Hmmm. .. Maybe some instructional material with a video would make things more transparent.
_________________
Stefan
Bill Hatcher custom 12 string Lap Steel Guitar
E13#9/F secrets: https://thelapsteelguitarist.wordpress.com
"Give it up for The Lap Steel Guitarist" |
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Jamie Mitchell
From:
Nashville, TN
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Posted 29 Sep 2014 5:48 pm
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Great playing!
I don't have anywhere near the required number of strings, but I'm reading this thread with interest... |
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Robbie Daniels
From:
Casper, Wyoming, USA
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Posted 30 Sep 2014 10:19 am
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My 12 string non pedal tuning arrangement from top to bottom is as follows:
1 D
2 B
3 G
4 E
5 C
6 A
7 G
8 E
9 C
10 A
11 F
12 C
_________________
Carter D12, MSA S12, 12 String Custom Made Non-Pedal, Evans FET 500LV, Evans SE200, Peavey Nashville 400, Fender Steel King |
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David Mason
From:
Cambridge, MD, USA
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Posted 1 Oct 2014 3:05 pm
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Mr. Daniels, that is Reece's 12-string tuning, with only the Low C different - he used a D there. Which brings up another issue, how to build chords, what the ear hears, how to name them. I went through a real chord-y period on six-string guitar, all the usual videos, books, eventually figuring out that whatever YOU can pull off constituted "correct" - Joe Pass & Ted Greene & Danny Gatton could be miles apart of subbing through a 1-6-2-5, but they all sounded good. But there are a lot of guitarists who will play through chords with any function of the notes in any location - the 3rd, 5th, root or 7th could be on the top, bottom, in the middle. It may make for some close voice-leading (there's probably a real word for "close") but it can sound really obtuse (there's a real word for that - "awful").
This is simple just for an example, but if you've got an E chord with an E on the bottom, an EM7th with an Eb on the bottom, an E7th with a D on the bottom, and the next chord is B played with a 3rd root (Eb) it may sound pretty garbled. The old maxim "let the bass player play it" only works if -
A) there's a bass player
B) he likes to play mop-up and isn't off in some slaphappy funkland of his own.
Just being able to "get" a lot of chords isn't the same as being maximally musical - especially if the 7ths and 3rds are leaping around the inversions willy-nilly. And the bass player has no hope of figuring out a steel guitarist by staring at his hands.  It's a toughie - this tuning and B. Hatcher's 14-string both have some odd-looking close intervals up top, but it may be the only way to construct music that doesn't have an indistinct mushy bottom. |
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Ulrich Sinn
From:
California, USA
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Posted 1 Oct 2014 3:45 pm
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string:
1,2,3 is a G triad
(forward slant makes a C triad)
1,2,4 a nice E7 partial (that resolves nicely three frets lower to an E triad), or Em7 partial.
1,2,6,7 make for a very pretty Gadd2 chord.
1,3,4,5 a very pretty Cadd2 chord
1,2,7,8 a plain vanilla Em7
2,3,5,8 a first inversion Cma7 (tough to balance though)
backward slant on
1,2,7,8 a plain vanilla dim7 (bottom to top F - Ab - B -D), kind of in tune.
2,3,7,8 diminished triad with a whole step extension on top (barely in tune though)
1,3,6 are two fourths
1,6,8 as well
none of these are really particularly dissonant.
_________________
Redline Resophonic
MSA Superslide 12-string Reece Anderson tuning, dropped down to B
MSA “The Universal†in Reece Andersons Bb universal tuning, raised to B
TomKat Amp
how I earn a living |
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John Limbach
From:
Billings, Montana, USA
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Posted 1 Oct 2014 4:08 pm
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| Doug Beaumier wrote: |
| I have always listed and stated steel guitar tunings high-low. That's how they were listed in the early days of steel guitar and that's how I learned it in the 60s and 70s. I have a theory as to how this developed. A popular early Hawaiian guitar tuning was A major with E on top. Other tunings evolved from there, E7, C6, etc... most of them with high E, string 1. Maybe because that was the constant in all the tunings steel players would name the tuning starting with that string? ...string1 |
High to low makes sense to me because that's how it is when I look down at my strings. Like you were labeling the strings. Low to high may be academically correct but doesn't seem as natural to visualize on the instrument. |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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David Mason
From:
Cambridge, MD, USA
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Posted 1 Oct 2014 7:58 pm
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I'm pretty sure I was advocating
1
2
3
4
instead of 1,2,3,4 or 4,3,2,1
It's, like, curing ebola & the heartbreak of psoriasis in one fell swoop. If you do it the easy way, it must be wrong? |
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