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Topic: Opinion on this keyhead. |
Martin Weenick
From:
Lecanto, FL, USA
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Posted 21 Aug 2014 11:05 am |
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I just built this keyhead and put a 3/16 stainless rod in front of the 3 rd. and 8 th. tuning keys. Strings 4, 5, 6, and 7 go under the rod. It only angles string 4,5,6, and 7 just enough to stop all vibrations. I don't believe wear at that point will have any effect on string breakage because the angle is not that sharp, just enough to deaden the strings at that point. All opinions, good or bad are welcome. Martin.
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Several custom steels. NV-112 Boss DD-7 |
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richard burton
From:
Britain
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Posted 21 Aug 2014 12:09 pm
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| The rod will add more friction, not much, but maybe enough for a plain 6th string to not quite return accurately to pitch after a raise/lower. |
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Chris Reesor
From:
British Columbia, Canada
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Posted 21 Aug 2014 12:13 pm Key head idea
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Looks like a good idea to even out the break angles over the roller nut, Martin. I doubt it would add much if any extra hysteresis to the system.
Are you milling this from bar stock, or starting with a casting?
Lovely work, as usual.
Cheers,
Chris
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Excel Superb U12, MIJ Squier tele, modified Deluxe Reverb RI, Cube 80XL, self built acoustics & mandolins |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 21 Aug 2014 2:32 pm
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A great many famous players like those vibrations you're trying to kill. In fact, that's probably the main reason why most pros don't like a keyless guitar.
If you're looking to even out the string angles, have you ever thought of designing an inclined keyhead? The keys would be mounted low at the end of the guitar, and get progressively higher as they approached the nut. That way, you wouldn't need an ersatz rod to hold the shallow-angle strings down, and the sharp angle of the outside strings would be reduced.  |
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Martin Weenick
From:
Lecanto, FL, USA
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Posted 22 Aug 2014 5:13 am
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Thanks for the comments. Chris R. , hysteresis is what I am trying to eliminate, much like a "string tree" on a regular guitar. Donny H., A inclined keyhead makes a lot of sense, it might seem kind of massive to get the right height but certainly something to think about. I guess I will just have to wait and see how it works out. The bar can be easily removed by removing one tuner and sliding the bar out. Thanks again. Martin.
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Several custom steels. NV-112 Boss DD-7 |
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Martin Weenick
From:
Lecanto, FL, USA
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Posted 22 Aug 2014 5:17 am
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Chris R. sorry I forgot to answer your question, I machine all my parts from 6061 aluminum bar stock. Martin.
_________________
Several custom steels. NV-112 Boss DD-7 |
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Pete Burak
From:
Portland, OR USA
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Posted 22 Aug 2014 7:41 am
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| The thing about the strings going under the rod, reminds of Carl Dixon's idea that said, if all of the strings go under the Nut, the tops of the strings would be perfectly flat, especially at the first fret (I think he didn't like having to press harder at the first fret). |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 22 Aug 2014 7:55 am
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My first thought when I saw your idea was "maybe he wants to have rollers on these strings"
Some of the modern string trees do indeed do this:
Roller Tree:
Old Style:
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Brint Hannay
From:
Maryland, USA
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Posted 22 Aug 2014 8:09 am
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Edit: Jon posted while I was typing (I type slow!)
I've always considered the string tree on a regular guitar to be intended to prevent inadequate downward string pressure at the nut which, along with allowing string vibration above the nut to muddle the string's response, can let the string hop out of the nut slot when struck with force. As to hysteresis, more recent string trees for standard guitars have been designed with rollers because of the potential for hangup at the string tree.
The rod across the keyhead seems like it would be a bit of added hassle when installing those strings. Kind of like installing strings on a guitar with a Bigsby vibrato. |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 22 Aug 2014 9:18 am
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| BTW--I wasn't posting those pictures as a suggestion of how you might implement the rollers on your keyhead---those trees have nothing to do with this application. It's just a picture of...rollers. |
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Martin Weenick
From:
Lecanto, FL, USA
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Posted 24 Aug 2014 5:19 am
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Jon L. Jon I really like the rollers. I had never seen these rollers before. I had thought of rollers on the shaft that I have in now but would have had to drop down to a 1/8 inch diameter shaft and I know it would flex under the pressure of four strings. I believe I can machine a solid base right across the keyhead at the bottom and mount two pillars with two rollers on each pillar. I think that would be better than building two pillars and screwing them directly to the wood body in the middle of the keyhead. I wish I would have seen your picture before I machined this keyhead. I will build another keyhead and incorporate that idea in to the new one. I will call it the "Jon Keyhead". Thanks, Martin.
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Several custom steels. NV-112 Boss DD-7 |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 24 Aug 2014 10:27 am
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Ron Pruter
From:
Arizona, USA
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Posted 24 Aug 2014 5:25 pm
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Martin ,
Maybe a slight improvement would be to have a tube cut into 4 revolving sections, one for each of the 4 strings being affected, and have them rotating on a solid shaft/axle. Basically what you have but with 4 sleeves ???? RP
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Emmons SKH Le Grande, '73 Fender P/J bass, Tick tack bass, Regal high strung, USA Nashville 112. |
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Godfrey Arthur
From:
3rd Rock
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Posted 24 Aug 2014 6:48 pm
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Like the gold tuners. Are those Grovers?
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ShoBud The Pro 1
YES it's my REAL NAME!
Ezekiel 33:7 |
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Brint Hannay
From:
Maryland, USA
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Posted 24 Aug 2014 7:31 pm
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| Ron Pruter wrote: |
Martin ,
Maybe a slight improvement would be to have a tube cut into 4 revolving sections, one for each of the 4 strings being affected, and have them rotating on a solid shaft/axle. Basically what you have but with 4 sleeves ???? RP |
The pillars-with-rollers approach has the advantage of avoiding the inconvenience in installing strings that a continuous shaft across the keyhead would cause, with or without revolving sleeves. With the pillar approach, you can attach the string to the tuning peg same as on any guitar, wind the peg till the string is loosely taut, then tuck the string under the roller and bring it up to pitch. A small point, perhaps, but if one is designing something new why not consider all aspects. |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 24 Aug 2014 8:46 pm
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Donny;
"A great many famous players like those vibrations you're trying to kill."
This is something I can't fathom! Put your tuner on, and pluck those strings in the key head. They don't relate harmonically to anything you'd really want to hear! E#+17 cents, B minus 9 cents. Why would one want to hear those? |
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David Mason
From:
Cambridge, MD, USA
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Posted 26 Aug 2014 2:15 pm
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I haven't done a strict double-blind A/B research survey (Facts? In guitar chatter?!? ), but some people also like the long "trapeze" string terminus on ES335s instead of stop tailpieces, and the long strings behind the bridge on Fender Jaguars and Jazzmasters. Those extra string lengths aren't really tuned, but they add a certain, noticeable reverb-y kind of effect. Ry Cooder has even expressed a preference for pickups mounted through a pickguard and held tight by springs, instead of the modern "improved" bit of rubber tubing - the more springs, the better according to that view - they add "reverb." People often leave the springs in a Stratocaster even when they have the whammy block shimmed to disable it.
I am just the messenger here, I think it's rather nonsensical. In fact, with the extra string length setups, it's rather common for a particular string gauge and type to have the extra string BE in tune with one certain note. So all of a sudden all your F# notes are blaring out at twice the volume. I don't much care for guitars with those sorts of quirky "personality" and "mojo." |
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Jeremy Threlfall
From:
now in Western Australia
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Posted 5 Oct 2014 7:45 pm
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Angled keyhead is how Noel Anstead used to do it (before he went keyless. Only has a slight angle.
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 6 Oct 2014 1:36 pm
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| ahhh....the weenick 'harmonic stabilizer'! |
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Martin Weenick
From:
Lecanto, FL, USA
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Posted 6 Oct 2014 3:22 pm
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Great one Chris !!!!!!
_________________
Several custom steels. NV-112 Boss DD-7 |
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