So who came up with knee levers?

Billy Easton · From: Nashville, TN USA

Okay,
Now that the mystery of the card symbols for fret markers has been solved, let's try this one. Who first came up with knee levers for the steel guitar? And when? And we all know why...go get more changes. But can we credit Buddy Emmons for this innovation as well? The first knee levers I ever saw was on a ShoBud in the early 60s. Anyone have the definitive information on "who was first" on which guitar, etc?

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Billy Easton
Casa Grande, AZ
Southwestern Steel Guitar Association

Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

The way I've been told it, it is like this. A midget ordered a pedal steel with really short legs. Then he decided to sell it. The guy that bought it was about 6'5" tall. He called Bobby Seymore and Bobby put the proper length legs on it. However, he didn't lengthen the pedal rods. So, what could the guy do but play the pedals with his knees!
Now you know the rest of the story!

Uff-Da!

[This message was edited by Erv Niehaus on 05 February 2003 at 10:08 AM.]

Tommy Minniear · From: Logansport, Indiana

Good question, Billy. I never heard or if I did I don't recall. I do know that Jimmie Crawford is the one who got it down to a science on the old P/P's! "Crawford Cluster". Let the sky be the limit!

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Tommy Minniear
www.ntsga.com

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

There is no doubt that the first knee levers preceeded "factory" knee levers. I have heard stories long before Sho-Bud got started of players installing knee levers under their Fender 400's and 1000's. I feel certain, this may have been true on the Bigsby's also.

But I imagine you are interested in specifically the "factory" versions concerning E9th (and possibly C6th). To the best of my knowledge the following is true:

1. The first "factory" installed knee lever was in the early 60's and it lowered the 2nd string from a D# to a D. NOT to C# as it does now. Plus, it lowered the 8th string from an E to Eb. I don't know who created it, but it would NOT suprise me to learn it was Buddy Emmons.

2. Sometime after this, not sure the date (I believe several years), someone decided to lower BOTH E's to Eb; so they split this one knee lever into two: (I think this was BE, not sure)

A. RK? lowered the 2nd string to a D.

B. RK? lowered both E's to Eb.

Since some did it one way and others the other way, I have put a "?" as to which one.

3. Then Ray Price recorded "Those Healing Hands of Time" and 10,000 PSG players went crazy trying to figure out how Buddy got that opening and unbelievably haunting lick on this recording.

When we discovered what he had done, it required taking the second string on down to a C# with the lever that lowered the D# to a D. This, so he could use "unison" notes evolving in two different directions. An incredible achievment by the master indeed.

I believe it was shortly aftewards that, someone came up with the half-stop idea on this change. Probably BE was the one that did it.

4. A few more years went by, and someone added the C to B change on ONE of the above knee levers on double necks on the C6 neck. This may have been Buddy also. Again, not sure. The song that might have inspired this change was recorded by Jean Sheppard along with others.

For the life of me I cannot recall the title of the song; even though it is on the tip of my tongue. The signature lick is done by picking string 1 then 2 then 3 (C neck) and engaging the knee lever lowering the 3rd string to a B note. Then while holding this change, repick string 1 then 2 then 3 and finish on 4.

If you try this, I am sure some of you will recognize the name of the tune instantly.

5. Then Lloyd Green recorded a song with Warner Mack called, "The Bridge washed out" and it was the first commercial use of the F lever, ie, raising the E's to F. So Lloyd gets the hat for this knee lever I am sure.

5. Then sometime later, somoene added a knee lever that raised both F#'s to a G. I have NOT a clue who came up with it. I have been told Pete Drake; for the lick in his recording of "The Spook".

I doubt this. Because Pete did not use the E9th neck to record that song. He used the C neck. And used both feet on pedals 5, 6 and 7 rocking on and off pedal 6 with his left foot. So I don't know who came up with this knee lever. (note: this lick won't work now because we no longer LOWER the 1st string on pedal 5. (Back then we lowered it to an F#, instead).

This now was 4 knee levers "standard" on PSG's with one of the right levers lowering the C to B on the C neck. LKL, LKR, RKL and RKR. And they were called D, E, F and G knee levers. Though there is NO agreement as to which letter did what, even until this day; which is sad.

In the early 70's, the knee lever that raised the F#'s to G was changed so that the 7th string F# to G was dropped and the 6th string G# to F# lower was implemented instead.

Buddy Emmons I am almost positive created this change. And the first time I ever heard it was on the "Suite Steel" album where Buddy and Sneaky Pete Klinow did the Beatles' "Yesterday". If you ever hear this recording, pay close attention to the last lick where Buddy milks the releasing of this change as it takes him from here to eternity to do get there

. And again, drove 20,000 steel players crazy.

Somewhere along this route, somebody decided to make double use of the 2nd right knee lever and raised the 4rh string (A) on C6th to Bb. I have not a clue who came up with this change. But it would NOT suprise me if it was Jimmy Day. Because he used this change a lot.

Now something very interesting. In the 60's Buck Owens recorded one of his most famous classics. It was called "Together Again". On this tune, Tom Brumley executed one of the most awesome licks EVER done on a steel guitar.

But EVEN though Tom did NOT use a knee lever to get that lick. many of the 30,000 steel guitar players in the world thought he did. IE, a knee lever that lowers the 5th string from B to Bb eventually came about. But it was not used widely until the past few years.

So, the H or X or V (you name it) knee lever came into being; and now this makes 5 of them sapsuckers. And they are pretty much standard today with the rollowing caveats:

1. Many players are again messing with the knee lever that raises the F#'s to G.

2. They're sacrificing the 1st string F# to G and replacing it with F# to G#. Yes, the Paul Franklin knee lever.

3. And as PF does now, some are also pulling the 2nd string to an E along with it.

This is such a popular change, that I foresee it becoming standard very quickly.

Finally; there was a time (I have NO idea when), someone decided to add the lowering of the 9th string from D to C# along with the 2nd string D# to C# change. Also, Buddy and others have added 2 additional knee levers on C6th back in the 80's. They do the following:

1. Raise the 3rd string from C to C#. He now has added raising the 7th string C to C# along with it. This change in all likelyhood was created because BE changed his top string to a D (from a G note). This change then, allows him to get the "missing" chord 3 frets up.

2. Lowers the 4th string from A to Ab. Some lower both A's to Ab. BE only lowers one of them. Just as he only raises the top A to Bb.

Which knee levers create these changes on C6th varies widely among players. Buddy raises and lowers the 3rd string on his right knees. And raises and lowers the 4th string on his left knee. (Left moving lowers and right moving raises on both knees. Makes sense to me

)

Hope the above helps, and may God bless BE, JD, LG, PD, TB, PK, PF, RP, WM, JS, BO and all of you,

carl

[This message was edited by C Dixon on 05 February 2003 at 12:20 PM.]

Michael Johnstone · From: Sylmar,Ca. USA

I can't remember where I read it but supposedly a guy in Germany in the 1940s put knee levers on a steel - no pedals,just knee levers.

Jim Smith · From: Midlothian, TX, USA

I thought I heard that Zane Beck was the first to put a knee lever on a steel.

Also, I thought Lloyd Green's first use of the F lever was on D-I-V-O-R-C-E.

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

Jim,

It is highly possible you are correct. In my mind it was Warner Mack's song. But if not, I stand corrected. Thanks for pointing it out. The problem I have with "D I V O R C E", is my mind sees that tune coming out AFTER I recall LG using it. But I could just as easily be wrong.

If there are any other inaccuracies, please anyone feel free to correct. I would appreciate it. I am going purely from memory, so....

carl

Bill Stafford · From: Gulfport,Ms. USA

I have a double ten made in the very early 60s or late 50s by my dear friend, A.J. Smith. It has no metal end plates, nine pedals and ONE knee lever. The third pedal changes were not in effect at the time this guitar was made by A.J. The "undercarriage" uses triangle shaped phenolic deveices with a hole in each point. "Rods" were similar to the Fender 1000 somewhat(?) Dependent upon where you inserted the pull rod, made it a push or a pull, and one pull/push rod coming from the changer could change lots of strings dependent upon how many of those triangle components you inserted in the change. The center of that triangle had a hole and this was mounted to the under side of the cabinet. It would swivel around the mounting screw to change the push or pull. Very effective and NO CABINET DROP here folks. I still have this guitar. It is all Birds Eye maple with mahogony necks. Corners are rounded with the most beautiful rows of inlay on the top and bottom of the cabinet. Gorgeous guitar and worth about seventy five million dollars now. Not for sale either. lol
Tuning: First two pedals same as the standard E9 Jimmy Day setup. Pedals 3 through 9 were on the C6. The knee lever raised string 4 (E) to F#. That gave me the BC pedal change with A & B depressed. (The E to Eb lever was not yet in existence as far as I know). I still use this change on my 14 string EXCEL even though I now have the C pedal. Still like the ability to "walk" the E string from Eb to E to F to F# with pedals A & B depressed and this lever with the E to F# change. Nice chord structure in that shift. Sounds good too.
Hard to say "who" did what first, and the important thing is that we can do it now.

Bill Stafford

Darvin Willhoite · From: Roxton, Tx. USA

Like Jim, I heard that Zane Beck was the first to use knee levers. Supposedly he was working for a singer that would not let him use pedals, so he put knee levers on the guitar to get the same changes.

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Darvin Willhoite
Riva Ridge Recording

Bobbe Seymour · From: Hendersonville TN USA, R.I.P.

[This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 05 February 2003 at 02:12 PM.]

[This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 06 February 2003 at 04:11 PM.]

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

There is evidence that Kenneth Clark came up with the first knee levers, back in the early '20s. They were mounted on an acoustic Hawaiian (lap) guitar. This was before the Harlin Bros. put foot pedals on an electric Hawaiian guitar with legs (their "Multi-Kord")...which evolved into the pedal steel of today.

Right now, I'm still doing research on this subject. Possibly, the Harlin Bros. got their idea from Clark's invention. At any rate, it now seems possible that the knee levers actually came before the foot pedals!

Reggie Duncan · From: Mississippi

From Lloyd Green:

When I cut "The Bridge Washed Out" with Warner Mack, The E to F change was still almost 2 years in the future. Indeed, I did first use it on D-I-V-O-R-C-E with Tammy Wynette.
I was also using the F# to G# change as early as 1965 on records, and I believe Buddy Emmons was, too. I only kept the whole tone raise for a short time, perhaps seven or eight months, before returning to a F# to G half tone raise because I found many more uses for the half tone, and still do, preferring instead to get the other 1/2 tone raise, when it's called for, with a bar slant.
Paul Franklin discussed this with me when he decided to incorporate the whole tone pedal, explaining he felt the bar slant would not be as comfortable or as accurate for him. So, while it wasn't a new concept, he certainly popularized it in the modern era.

Bob Simmons · From: Trafford, Alabama, USA

I spoke with Zane Beck years ago and he wasn't aware of anyone else doing knees at that point in time. What I find ironic is that in 1957 with the help of my dad, I bought a d8 fender with 3 legs and an L shaped knee lever with 2 push up adjustable plungers from a machinist who knew nothing about the industry. I suspect many others were experimenting since the first pedal.

[This message was edited by Bob Simmons on 05 February 2003 at 08:11 PM.]

Jim Smith · From: Midlothian, TX, USA

There was a thread here a while back about an acoustic guitar on eBay that had knee levers and linkages attached. It was a factory made guitar and there was some discussion that this may have been the first knee levers on a guitar.

I remember that b0b was outbid on it, but I can't find the link. Donny Hinson, is this the guitar you're talking about, and is this related to your research?

nick allen · From: France

I read somewhere (almost certainly on the Forum!) that Jimmy Day had 4 knee levers put on his non-pedal steel, each lowering one note on the C6 tuning a semi-tone. Forget who it was who did it for him - maybe Shot Jackson?
Nick

Ricky Littleton · From: Steely-Eyed Missile Man from Cocoa Beach, Florida USA

Nick, I think Winnie Winston's book mentioned something about Jimmy having Zane Beck add 4 knees on his non-pedal c6 tuning. You're right that they each lowered one string 1/2 tone.

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Emmons LeGrande - 8x4
Session 400 Ltd
Dan-Echo, E-Bow, Ibanez Distortion, Boss Comp./Sustain, Ibanez Auto-Wah

Drew Howard · From: 48854

Carl,

Thank you for the history lesson. Really!

cheers,
Drew Howard

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www.newslinkassociates.com
www.drewhoward.com

Reggie Duncan · From: Mississippi

About 25 years ago, Zane Beck told me that he put some floor pedals on his guitar. The guy he was backing said he didn't like the way they looked on the guitar and to take them off. Zane said he put some discreet knee levers under his guitar, and the artist didn't know the difference. From the best of my recollection.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Jim Smith...yes, that ad's what turned me on to the possibility that that the Harlin's first marketed Clark's idea, and then (changed) adapted it later to the electric Hawaiian steel. That Clark's invention was marketed under the "Harmolin" name (which belonged to the Harlins') has to be more than mere coincidence.

Jim Smith · From: Midlothian, TX, USA

Cool Donny!

Did you happen to save the eBay pictures or have a link to them? I should have saved them but didn't.

Franklin · Posted 7 Feb 2003 5:51 pm

I have always used a half stop on the F# to G# lever which gives both the half and whole tone raises. Back in the sixties alot of players would also pull strings behind the bar. They were raising the first string a half tone and then pulling it up to G# behind the bar. To my way of thinking, why gamble with intonation that way. A pedal takes out the guess work over slants in more critical tuning situations.

Also, My copedant does have the split fourth pedal changes. I raise the 7th string F# to G# which allows me to lower the 4th pedal B to A indepedantly, leaving the 7th string free to pivot between F#, G and G# just the same as a seperate 6th string G# to F# lower allows. The main difference is that I have to skip strings. I use 4, 5, and 7 instead of 4, 5, and 6 when I want the split sound.
Hope that clears things up,
Paul

Jim Smith · From: Midlothian, TX, USA

Cool!

Thanks Paul!

John Bechtel · From: Nashville, Tennessee, R.I.P.

C. Dixon; I meant to reply, several days ago, when I first read your statement #3, up above! Your are correct in the way you explained the lick, if you were doing it on the C6 neck, however; that lick is done on the E9 neck! A&B pedals down. Pick strs. 4, than 5, than 6, and then pick them again, in that order and,release P-(B), then the thumb pick on str 7. A total of 8 notes in all. Most guys/bands like to add a bunch of extra notes nowadays, which, in MHO takes away from the whole idea! I've always stayed with the original version, even today. The song was "Funny How Time Slips Away", and the artist was Billy Walker! How do I know? I was a "Tennessee Walker", in '71 & '72. The best job I had during my 36yrs. here in Nashville, TN http://community.webtv.net/KeoniNui/BigJohnBechtels

John Bechtel · From: Nashville, Tennessee, R.I.P.

C. Dixon; Actually the lick makes up a Maj7 chord. If you listen to the record closely, I think you'll notice that the last note is not played on the steel! On the C6 neck, the lick only consists of 7 notes. C6= 1,2,3_1,2,3,4w/P-4 down, and the other instrs. play the 8th. note in that passage! In the key of D (2nd fret), the notes would be: A,F#,D_A,F#,D,C#_. The band finishes with the B, while the steel sustains the C#. All the steel notes are done w/finger hamonics. On the E9 neck, it would be done as explained before (w/harmonics), but; omit the last note [thumb]. If I recall, the original recording was in Key of C, therefore; most likely E9 neck, 3rd. fret. Thanks, John http://community.webtv.net/KeoniNui/BigJohnBechtels

Herb Steiner · From: Spicewood TX 78669

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