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Topic: Towards a standard U12? |
Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 11 Aug 2014 1:52 pm |
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On another thread I'm describing a U12 I'm building, which is slightly experimental and will be for my own use. I don't want to get ahead of myself, but if I wanted to make a more conventional one which might be of interest to others, I wonder how it should be set up.
As we know, there is no standard, but when I look at the copedent on the GFI site it seems to include everything that you might reasonably expect from a 7x5 as your first experience with a uni, so I'm inclined to imitate it. Any comments?
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Jim Smith
From:
Midlothian, TX, USA
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Posted 11 Aug 2014 2:30 pm
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| I don't play a universal, but I would recommend swapping the right and left knee levers. When playing the B6 side, you hold the E-D# lever, but also use the B-A# lever a lot. That would be hard to do with them both on the left knee. |
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Les Cargill
From:
Oklahoma City, Ok, USA
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Posted 11 Aug 2014 2:54 pm
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| Jim Smith wrote: |
| I don't play a universal, but I would recommend swapping the right and left knee levers. When playing the B6 side, you hold the E-D# lever, but also use the B-A# lever a lot. That would be hard to do with them both on the left knee. |
This being said, LKL being the F lever ( E raise ) goes with the A pedal well. |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 11 Aug 2014 3:03 pm
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I find it EASIER to use the LKV when using LKR.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Tony Glassman
From:
The Great Northwest
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Posted 11 Aug 2014 3:40 pm
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| Les Cargill wrote: |
| Jim Smith wrote: |
| I don't play a universal, but I would recommend swapping the right and left knee levers. When playing the B6 side, you hold the E-D# lever, but also use the B-A# lever a lot. That would be hard to do with them both on the left knee. |
This being said, LKL being the F lever ( E raise ) goes with the A pedal well. |
The E-->D # changes are better off being on the right knee for use with pedals five through seven. Just swap the LKR and RKL functions. That way allows you to keep your E--> F changes on LKL |
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Archie Nicol
From:
Ayrshire, Scotland
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Posted 11 Aug 2014 4:10 pm
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RKL lowering the `E`s has your right leg nearer the pedals for two foot work on the `back neck.`
Arch.
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I'm well behaved, so there! |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 11 Aug 2014 6:16 pm
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I'm with Tony and Arch on putting string 4/8 E=>D# on RKL for the reasons mentioned plus a bunch of others that have been discussed extensively for many years on this forum.
But my LKR changes are string 6 G#=>F# (which I split with B-pedal to get the G note) and string 1 F#=>G#.
Of course, many players have a feel-stop enabled D#=>D=>C# on string 2. There may also be some 'personalization' of the B6-oriented pedals. But in general, I think generally what you're talking about is a pretty 'standardized' E9/B6 universal type of tuning.
That said, I doubt there will ever be an absolute standardization of a particular approach to pedal steel. This is one general direction, but slight variations may fit one's general musical approach better or worse. Then other players take a very different approach, and it's not 'wrong' - I'm talking about some very fine players.
I think about it this way. With most instruments - let's say piano, violin family, guitar family, and so on - within a single position, your fingers do the note selection, and you can select notes (combinations) within your ability to stretch your fingers to the desired notes. Not so with steel guitar. You're restricted to what notes the bar can hit within that position, and geometry places pretty significant restrictions - e.g., straight bar or slant. Pedals and levers give additional combinations. It only stands to reason that different combinations may work for some person or style of music better or worse. |
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John Polstra
From:
Lopez Island, WA, USA
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Posted 11 Aug 2014 8:07 pm
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| Dave Mudgett wrote: |
Of course, many players have a feel-stop enabled D#=>D=>C# on string 2. |
Dave, how does that work on a uni, where the same lever raises string 9 from B to D? That's a long pull, so I'd assume that when you hit the half-stop on string 2, string 9 is playing some in-between non-note. Is that right?
I have a uni, but it only lowers string 2 by a half step. It would be nice to be able to lower it another half step down to C#, if I could do it without messing up the change on string 9.
Better still (but probably not feasible) would be to have both strings 2 and 9 playing D at the half stop, and both strings playing C# when the lever was fully engaged. It would require string 9 to raise and then lower all on the same lever, though.
John |
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Bobby D. Jones
From:
West Virginia, USA
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Posted 11 Aug 2014 8:34 pm towards a standard U-12
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I bought a GFI U-12 a month or so ago myself. I have U-12 tunings by Jeff Newman, Sierra, BMI and Franklin. I am going to HIDE and WATCH on this one.
I have not been able to choose a tuning for my U-12. Good Luck. I will be watching. |
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Will Cowell
From:
Cambridgeshire, UK
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Posted 11 Aug 2014 10:44 pm
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My copedent is very similar to this one, Ian. The pedal allocation is a tried and tested selection. I play the Day setup, so P1 & P3 are swapped. My knee levers are allocated differently though:
LKL lowers 2 to D, then hits a feel stop, after which it raises 9 to D, and lowers 2 to C#.
LKV lowers B to Bb, LKR raises 4, 8 & 11 from E to F.
RKL raises 1 to G, then after a feel stop it picks up 2, raising it to E and 1 to G# for the John Hughey stuff.
RKR lowers 4 & 8 only from E to Eb, a la Jeff Newman.
Works for me....
_________________
Williams 700 series keyless U12,
Sierra keyless U14, Eezzee-Slide & BJS bars
Moth-eaten old Marshall 150 combo
Roland Cube 80XL, Peterson Strobo+HD,
EarthQuaker Despatch Master for reverb / delay |
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Geoff Noble
From:
Scotland
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Hans Holzherr
From:
Münchenbuchsee, Switzerland
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Posted 12 Aug 2014 2:10 am
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| You might also consider putting the 8th string E to D lower on a lever, and this lever would also lower string 2 to D, and thus replace the lever that raises string 9 to D. This way, the two tunings are integrated more into 'one big tuning', and saves a pedal to boot. |
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Micky Byrne
From:
United Kingdom (deceased)
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Posted 12 Aug 2014 2:32 am Re: Towards a standard U12?
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Ian, the "majority" of Universal E9th/B6th players work the lowers and raises of the E's on the right knee.
Micky "scars" Byrne U.K. |
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Niels Andrews
From:
Salinas, California, USA
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Posted 12 Aug 2014 8:56 am Adding to the thought process
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You might want to check out Zane King's video's on you tube about his take on the Zane Beck tuning. I have the ZB tuning in my U-12 with the E's on my right knee with six levers and four pedals. I like it and that is all that really matters to me. 
_________________
Die with Memories. Not Dreams.
Good Stuff like Zum S-12, Wolfe Resoport
MSA SS-12, Telonics Combo. |
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mike nolan
From:
Forest Hills, NY USA
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Posted 12 Aug 2014 10:47 am
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This is what I'm using. I have long legs, so there is no problem holding the LKR and hitting all of the pedals when playing as one big tuning. This probably won't work for everyone. In the event that I really want to stay on the 6th side,(i.e. I have to play "The Night Life") I do have a lever lock, but I almost never use it.
I do put the second string lowers on two different levers, because you can't get a really solid feel stop. On the same LKL 2 I pull strings 9 & 10 to give myself the complete bottom of the E9.
There is a whole lot of A6 stuff on the uni with A & B down, which seems to get overlooked.
The changes in red are still being evaluated.
Some of the string gauges are different than on this chart.... string 6 is a .020 P. I can't recall the others off hand.
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Olli Haavisto
From:
Jarvenpaa,Finland
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Posted 12 Aug 2014 10:55 pm
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I`ve been using this set up for 3 years. My new guitar will have the same `cause it works!
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Olli Haavisto
Finland |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 13 Aug 2014 6:45 am
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Thank you - so many swift responses and all interesting. What I'm trying to achieve is a setup that someone who's never played a uni but wants to try one might look at think "That's not so strange - I'll try it."
Two things that strike me as a little odd about the GFI setup are that S2 only goes to D and there's no S6 lower to F#, so I would remedy those. Next is the question of where to put the E-to-D# lever which I reckon is a crucial decision. As Mike points out, it's probably ok on LKR if your legs are long enough, but it should not be physique-dependent and most people seem to prefer it on the right anyway. Then the F lever. If you're used to Es-on-the-right, no problem. If not it makes sense to leave it by the A pedal. (GFI seem to be catering for dyed-in-the-wool Es-on-the-left types.)
Which brings us to here:-
The instrument I'm building for myself is irrelevant to this discussion as I play Day and it's a testbed for my own ideas, which are more B6-oriented, but here's how it will look in case you're curious:-
Thanks again for all your input.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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