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Topic: will a #4-40 die work on old msa rod? |
Tom Gorr
From:
Three Hills, Alberta
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Posted 30 Jul 2014 12:41 pm |
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| Seems to be a lot of comments that suggest the msa changer rods were #5-40, any chance. #4-40 will work? |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 30 Jul 2014 12:57 pm
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I think you'd have a very hard time threading, and might end up breaking the die. Buy the right one, and you won't be sorry!  |
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Ron Pruter
From:
Arizona, USA
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Posted 30 Jul 2014 1:28 pm
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They're hard enough to do with the right size.
_________________
Emmons SKH Le Grande, '73 Fender P/J bass, Tick tack bass, Regal high strung, USA Nashville 112. |
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Storm Rosson
From:
Silver City, NM. USA
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Posted 30 Jul 2014 2:16 pm
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Don't know about MSA but my old pro !! bud had 1/8" rods and required a 5/40 die.Odd size used in gunsmithing. I bought one from Brunnell(?sp) gun site.  |
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Storm Rosson
From:
Silver City, NM. USA
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Posted 30 Jul 2014 2:22 pm
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| that's 1/8" rods.DOH |
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Bobby D. Jones
From:
West Virginia, USA
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Posted 30 Jul 2014 9:39 pm willa #4-40 die work on old MSA rod
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| My MSA uses 1/8 rod. I use a 5-40 die. Actually a 1/8 is cut slightly small with the 5-40, If you used a 4-40 it may tear the threads, Break the die, or tear the rod up. A tip. Only turn the die about a half turn then back it up to break up the chips. Makes for a smoother thread finish. Good Luck and Happy Steelin. |
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Jimmy Gibson
From:
Cornwall, England
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Posted 31 Jul 2014 12:17 am 3mm Die
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A 3mm die is what I used to make pull rods for an MSA and for my Pro 2 Bud I just rounded the rod ends and I had no problems cutting the thread and they did the job fine.
Jimmy. |
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Will Cowell
From:
Cambridgeshire, UK
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Posted 31 Jul 2014 12:24 am
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Bobby Jones says to back off the die every half turn or so. Yep, that's normal thread cutting 101 - basic good workshop practice, and *should* be common knowledge!
_________________
Williams 700 series keyless U12,
Sierra keyless U14, Eezzee-Slide & BJS bars
Moth-eaten old Marshall 150 combo
Roland Cube 80XL, Peterson Strobo+HD,
EarthQuaker Despatch Master for reverb / delay |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 31 Jul 2014 3:43 am
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#5 is 1/8" by another name, so #5-40 is perfect for a 1/8" rod. Over here we would call it UNC5, although like Jimmy I use 3mm cos the taps & dies are easier to get.
We live in metric mayhem in the UK. Although brass and aluminium are still sold in inches, steel is now in millimetres; but so-called 3mm rod is suspiciously overweight (1/8" in fact) so I suspect there's been more relabeling than retooling. Even the 3mm die is tight on the stuff I get. I'm tempted to switch to #5 despite the cost. I'm uneasy with European threads on an American invention. I stick to #10-32 and #8-32 everywhere else. I believe it improves the tone.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Tom Gorr
From:
Three Hills, Alberta
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Posted 31 Jul 2014 6:20 am
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| Ian Rae wrote: |
| I stick to #10-32 and #8-32 everywhere else. I believe it improves the tone. |
You've been following my tone threads...what about sustain? |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 31 Jul 2014 6:49 am
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I would also suggest using cutting oil.
It makes a big difference when cutting threads, especially on stainless steel. |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 31 Jul 2014 9:23 am
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Tom, for best sustain be sure to use socket-cap screws wherever possible
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Jim Smith
From:
Midlothian, TX, USA
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Posted 1 Aug 2014 1:33 pm
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| The 5-40 threads are rolled on the 1/8" rods. It is difficult to impossible to cut them with a die by hand. Use a 6-32 or 6-40 die instead and they will work fine, since the nylon tuning nuts thread themselves when screwed on. |
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Tom Gorr
From:
Three Hills, Alberta
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Posted 1 Aug 2014 1:45 pm
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| Thanks for that advise! I think I can actually get that size without special order, too. |
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Les Cargill
From:
Oklahoma City, Ok, USA
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Posted 1 Aug 2014 2:55 pm
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| Jim Smith wrote: |
| The 5-40 threads are rolled on the 1/8" rods. It is difficult to impossible to cut them with a die by hand. Use a 6-32 or 6-40 die instead and they will work fine, since the nylon tuning nuts thread themselves when screwed on. |
Erm... I just put the rod in a vise, grabbed the die with a pair of Vise-Grips, put cuttin' oil on and went to work.
It wasn't *easy* but it wasn't hard. Took maybe five, ten minutes each. I hand chamfered the end a bit with a bastard file first. Doesn't need much.
I also hedged and used mild steel instead of stainless - a local HW store has 1/8" mild and I figured I'd use those for practice.
They are still on the guitar. I was more feeling out the process than being serious about making rods - just wanted to know if I could do it. |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 2 Aug 2014 2:05 am
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I was also a bit surprised by that. So what if the originals were rolled? An 1/8" die will cut an 1/8" rod, although I would recommend using a proper diestock to hold it. And there's nothing wrong with mild steel.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Les Cargill
From:
Oklahoma City, Ok, USA
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Posted 2 Aug 2014 12:37 pm
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| Ian Rae wrote: |
| I was also a bit surprised by that. So what if the originals were rolled? An 1/8" die will cut an 1/8" rod, although I would recommend using a proper diestock to hold it. And there's nothing wrong with mild steel. |
Yep, a diestock would have been nice, but a Vice-Grip will work just fine. I spent a year one Saturday trying to find the right size diestock locally. Point being that it doesn't seem all that ticklish - I am a lousy mechanic and it worked out.
Rods are not expensive enough to not buy them; the experiment here was to prove I could make one in a pinch. |
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Jim Smith
From:
Midlothian, TX, USA
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Posted 2 Aug 2014 2:04 pm
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| Mild steel and of course aluminum will take a die much easier than the stainless steel that most manufacturers use for their stock rods. Mild steel will rust and aluminum will stretch or shrink a lot with temperature, so you choose your poison. |
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