| Can you sight read scored music ON PEDAL STEEL |
| yes, but not so much it hurts my playing |
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15% |
[ 16 ] |
| yes, it really helped my fretboard knowledge advance |
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13% |
[ 14 ] |
| yes, I am proficient and highly recommend it |
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4% |
[ 5 ] |
| no, it is the least important thing to me right now |
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20% |
[ 21 ] |
| no, wish I could but not a priority |
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20% |
[ 21 ] |
| no, but I think it would be worth learning |
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25% |
[ 27 ] |
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| Total Votes : 104 |
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Topic: How many can sight read music on psg? |
Tom Gorr
From:
Three Hills, Alberta
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Posted 13 Jul 2014 1:37 pm |
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| I have a couple options to help weight the importance of it to you. |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 13 Jul 2014 7:00 pm
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I took the first option, but it's pretty misleading. Knowing how to read, even poorly, won't hurt your playing. I can read, but I'm not all that great at it. Better than a lot of guitarists I've played with, though. 
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Tom Gorr
From:
Three Hills, Alberta
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Posted 13 Jul 2014 7:20 pm
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| That was a tongue in cheek option, for sure, after the age old 'saying' to the same effect..basically there's players that have a basic knowledge of sight reading and use it as a tool where required, but otherwise prefer to keep their ears honed, thus don't become heavily reliant on sheet music to get by musically much like players become reliant on tab...that's kind of where that option lays...I think you picked the right one, on balance. |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 13 Jul 2014 7:38 pm
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I always take "sight reading" to mean "play a piece straight off the page at nearly the right speed".
I can't do that, but I know what all the marks mean. I wish my reading skills were better, but not fervently enough to improve it.
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Posted 13 Jul 2014 7:41 pm
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Yeah, if you're really interested in the answer, you've left out what would likely be one of the most common answers: "I can read a little (or some), but not at tempo; I have to work it out slowly"
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Tom Gorr
From:
Three Hills, Alberta
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Posted 13 Jul 2014 7:56 pm
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| Fair statement. let's reduce the threshold of sight reading for everything except for the 'proficient' option, which would be considered at tempo and at reasonable levels of complexity. |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 14 Jul 2014 2:20 am
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I can read music, if pressed, but its not a "must" for me. There wasn't an option for that.
_________________
GFI Ultra Keyless S-10 with pad (Black of course) TB202 amp, Hilton VP, Steelers Choice sidekick seat, SIT Strings
Cakewalk by Bandlab and Studio One V4.6 pro DAWs, MOTU Ultralite MK5 recording interface unit |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 14 Jul 2014 3:38 am
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| Jack Stoner wrote: |
| I can read music, if pressed, but its not a "must" for me. There wasn't an option for that. |
I can sight read, I am schooled, but I have not sight read on a gig in over 40 years and have no plans to in any vision of my future.
NOW, sight read, that means each note on the staff...
NO. BUT...
If you put a chord chart in front of me I'll play it straight away...even if it's the first time. I write charts all the time for Bass and Guitar gigs when I fill in...sometimes I just listen to a song I may not know one time on the net then print out a chord sheet and go to the gig !
I have a pen and a piece of paper....I'm ready !
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Herb Steiner
From:
Spicewood TX 78669
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Posted 14 Jul 2014 4:37 am
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My answer lies closest to b0b's and Lane's reply.
_________________
My rig: Infinity and Telonics.
Son, we live in a world with walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with steel guitars. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? |
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Bill Duncan
From:
Lenoir, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 14 Jul 2014 4:51 am
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Only if it's written in English.
_________________
You can observe a lot just by looking |
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Tom Gorr
From:
Three Hills, Alberta
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Posted 14 Jul 2014 8:24 am
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| Jack Stoner wrote: |
| I can read music, if pressed, but its not a "must" for me. There wasn't an option for that. |
That would fit in Option A.
Just to reiterate...if you have the skill, but don't really use it a lot or believe its a necessary skillset for what you are doing, or have done, pick Option A.
Lane/Herb...you'll have to decide if you're sufficently skilled at sight reading to start with a "yes" or "no", and then weight the importance of this skill to you.
Tony, I'm not referring to chord charts, strictly scored music/sheet music eg notes on the staff. I don't think I'd know how a gigging musician could find their way through without being able to read a chord chart. So many times arise where you have to pull a song off with no rehearsal, etc....or as a stand-in in a 3 hour show....fun  !
(b0b, we need an eighteen layer survey form to make sure nobody feels like they fall in a "gap"  ) |
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Brint Hannay
From:
Maryland, USA
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Posted 14 Jul 2014 9:33 am
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The trouble with this poll isn't options, but the need to distinguish between being able to read scored music and being able to sight read it.
As stated, it only applies to sight reading--I'd be pretty surprised if more than a tiny handful can sight read on pedal steel. |
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Herb Steiner
From:
Spicewood TX 78669
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Posted 14 Jul 2014 9:34 am
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| Tom Gorr wrote: |
Lane/Herb...you'll have to decide if you're sufficently skilled at sight reading to start with a "yes" or "no", and then weight the importance of this skill to you.
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Hmm, I seem to have lost interest in the topic. 
_________________
My rig: Infinity and Telonics.
Son, we live in a world with walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with steel guitars. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 14 Jul 2014 9:36 am
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| Tom Gorr wrote: |
(b0b, we need an eighteen layer survey form to make sure nobody feels like they fall in a "gap" ) |
That's one handy thing of the limited text messages of a few years ago: One had to rethink and re-edit one's thoughts to squeeze the thoughts into 164 characters.
I enjoyed that mental exercise.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Tom Gorr
From:
Three Hills, Alberta
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Posted 14 Jul 2014 10:25 am
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| Brint Hannay wrote: |
The trouble with this poll isn't options, but the need to distinguish between being able to read scored music and being able to sight read it.
As stated, it only applies to sight reading--I'd be pretty surprised if more than a tiny handful can sight read on pedal steel. |
If you guys want to go to town on this issue, your ability to sight read anything depends on all manner of factor's including your prior exposure to the song, the complexity of the score, your intimate familiarity with the specific staff it's scored in, which could include more than a bass and treble clef, the familiarity of the key signature the song is in...the scale involved and the readiness around that, to how alert you happen to be that day, not to mention the obvious connection with proficiency in translating that to the correct noises on the instrument.
So, we are dealing with non specifics here...if I had to draw the exact boundaries between what differentiates being able to read music from being able to sight read would be a small print appendix.
Reasonableness would prescribe that it's insufficient skill if you know what the notes are on the page, but it takes two days of practice to execute on it, nor would reasonableness prescribe that you have to be sufficiently capable to execute at a performance quality level a four part score in four different clefs for a mozart string quartet on the first take with no preparation.
So draw the boundaries at reasonable levels as they pertain to what you do and what your goals are...in the alternative, when you clicked on the thread there was enough curiosity about the topic, which probably came from the point of view of how many steel players involved themselves with printed music vs those who don't, and answer in a way that helps satisfy that interest which others are similarly likely to have.
(with apologies to the 164 club  )
Last edited by Tom Gorr on 14 Jul 2014 10:58 am; edited 4 times in total |
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Don Sulesky
From:
Citrus County, FL, Orig. from MA & NH
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Posted 14 Jul 2014 10:38 am
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I learned to read music in the 3rd grade.
I feel it helps me mostly when tabbing out a song.
Live playing I use my ears to follow the chords.
_________________
Private one on one lessons available
Member: FSGC, PSGA, TSGA
Co-founder: Florida Steel Guitar Club
"Steel guitar is like playing chess in the dark with three players". Jeff Newman quote from 1997 seminar |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 14 Jul 2014 11:19 am
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Don,
You started a little earlier than I did. However, I'm certainly glad that my guitar teacher taught me "music" in addition to the guitar. It has stuck with me over the years and , like yourself, it certainly helps when tabbing. If you don't know the key, notes, chords and etc. you certainly are at a lose when trying to figure out a song.  |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 14 Jul 2014 11:47 am
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I've hung back from this one as I don't fit any category, despite reading (and writing) music fluently. We need to be clear exactly what "sight reading" is. With my trombone in hand, it means playing something I've never seen before with sufficient first-time accuracy to satisfy those around me, taking into account how technically complex it is. With well-written music that makes no unreasonable demands that accuracy should be 100%.
I can't imagine when in any steel player's life he/she is likely to be handed a bunch of notation and see the red light go on. And what would be written down? The melody? Detailed fills with the exact voicings and changes that the arranger imagines? If you have ever had to do that it would be interesting to know.
As a music reader I find tab with the melody over the top far preferable - that way you can play songs you don't already know (which is why notation was invented....)
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Don Sulesky
From:
Citrus County, FL, Orig. from MA & NH
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Posted 14 Jul 2014 2:10 pm
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Ian
You are so right. No written notation at the recording.
I did a recording session about 3 months ago.
When I got there they set up my amp in a far corner of the room under a blanket.
He gave me a rough chord chart he scribbled out while I tuned my steel.
Then they started the song and I was to play what I felt the 1st time through.
Then I played some other small licks he suggested.
Because the producer was not a steel player, it wasn't easy trying to interpret his ideas.
Anyway after 2 1/2 hours I was packed up and on my way, cash in hand.
He was very happy...
_________________
Private one on one lessons available
Member: FSGC, PSGA, TSGA
Co-founder: Florida Steel Guitar Club
"Steel guitar is like playing chess in the dark with three players". Jeff Newman quote from 1997 seminar |
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Dave Potter
From:
Texas
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Posted 14 Jul 2014 2:35 pm
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The whole idea would be vastly more meaningful if it detailed whose notation conventions would be used on any "sight-reading" music to be used.
Having said that, I've never even seen any "official" steel music - only hand-written "tab", done using whatever style the writer chose to use. That can be all over the map. |
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Robbie Daniels
From:
Casper, Wyoming, USA
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Posted 14 Jul 2014 5:38 pm
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I learned to read at a very early age and applied that to the steel guitar when I started playing back in the 40's when Danny Boyd in California would write out my lesson for the week in hand written manuscript. To this day I will learn a more complicated song from the sheet music and make arrangements from the original score. Having said that I still to this day play by ear especially country and blues music.
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David Mason
From:
Cambridge, MD, USA
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Posted 14 Jul 2014 6:50 pm
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Yeah, I can't vote on that because there's no option for how the majority of people who read music USE it:
"I can read proficiently-enough to benefit greatly, but not SIGHT-read on a pedal steel guitar."
There is this huge confusion between being able to read, and sight-reading as the highest form or even best usage of reading. Either you can sight-read, or you can't read at all? It's like saying
| Quote: |
| "You can win the Indy 500, or you can't drive at all?" |
I used to be able to sight-read just about any bass part, but it faded because I never, ever needed to. I can't think of a situation where being able to sight-read a steel part would ever actually come up in real life, but you can't have my "Classical Fake Book" or my 4,000 song CD-ROM til you pry my cold dead paws etc. etc. Arf. |
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Robbie Daniels
From:
Casper, Wyoming, USA
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Posted 14 Jul 2014 7:15 pm
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I totally agree with you David. Trying to sight read on a steel guitar is very very tough. Too many chord positions all over the fret board, but sight reading to learn the song is viable, at least for me, but being able to sight read is IMHO a valuable asset.
_________________
Carter D12, MSA S12, 12 String Custom Made Non-Pedal, Evans FET 500LV, Evans SE200, Peavey Nashville 400, Fender Steel King |
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Ken Byng
From:
Southampton, England
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Posted 14 Jul 2014 11:51 pm
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I learned to read music at school. Back in the late 1970's I was booked into a recording session in London for a big name pop singer, where the producer had an arranger write all of the parts out in notation. The producer - who is now deceased - was part of an established band who became enormous worldwide in the 80's, and it was one of his earlier attempts at production. I had a solo written, and it was single note. The producer said to me "I don't know you, and if you can't play what is written, I will get the guitar player to play it on bottle neck and you leave here without getting paid". I played my part twice to him - first as it was written, and second as a variation with more chords and harmony notes. He warmed a little and said, "Just do your thing".
When the track was recorded (first take), he came over and asked me for a card. He apologised for being spiky at first, and explained that he had a bad experience with another pedal steel player previously who couldn't read. I told him that the instrument was capable of so much more than he wanted, and the best way to write for it is plain old chord charts. When the other musicians (who could read fly droppings as we say in the UK) left the studio, I played him some bits and pieces on both necks and he loved what the instrument was capable of.
One thing for sure - anyone who doesn't understand how a pedal steel works cannot accurately write a part in musical notation for it.
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 15 Jul 2014 3:01 am
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FWIW, Rusty Young's pedal steel instruction book used standard notation. Rusty believed that it would be a good thing to know how to read.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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