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Topic: S12 Uni build project |
Charlie McDonald
From:
out of the blue
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Posted 29 Mar 2015 11:58 am |
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I've been playing catchup--your new parts look well-thought out.
Mostly, I have to agree on the wide body, the way singles look too narrow; having room for a loafer pad
whether you use one or not is definitely appreciated for access to the knee levers.
This is a pretty exciting build.
The kit at the bottom for carrying it is pretty cool.
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Those that say don't know; those that know don't say.--Buddy Emmons |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 30 Mar 2015 10:23 am
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| Having a wide body also allows you to build a resonator into it if you want a Dobro sound. |
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Charlie McDonald
From:
out of the blue
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Posted 30 Mar 2015 10:30 am
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Sometimes I don't know when you're kidding. 
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Those that say don't know; those that know don't say.--Buddy Emmons |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 30 Mar 2015 10:44 am
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Alan isn't kidding. He really thinks it would be great to put a resonator in there. I don't want to offend him as he's a good friend, but I really can't abide Dobros and have no urge to sound like one.
I made the body wide partly for aesthetic reasons, partly to give more lever room, but mostly as I'd never built a guitar before I didn't know how much working space I'd need underneath so I played safe. I could, as it turns out, build the next one narrower, but I probably won't - I quite like it the way it is.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Charlie McDonald
From:
out of the blue
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Posted 30 Mar 2015 10:53 am
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It's the esthetic I was thinking about, altho I've seen pretty boxbros.
I have the feeling you designed it with its proportions in mind, and how it looks in that wood.
I seem to prefer having the shelf; I always felt it got me closer to the guitar, somehow.
I do wish I could find some 3D glasses, however.
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Those that say don't know; those that know don't say.--Buddy Emmons |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 30 Mar 2015 12:06 pm
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I admit I do like the proportions, whatever way they came about. In fact it's as wide as my D10 (10½"), so I could make an SD12 by having the neck closer to the front and a pad at the rear. I don't care for a pad myself, but the option's there.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 30 Mar 2015 3:06 pm
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Charlie, I'm not surprised that you never know when I'm joking. After all, I have a weird sense of humour, and I am the one who once suggested putting a banjo pot into a Dobro. 
In this instance I wasn't joking. I know that Ian is not very particular to the sound of the Dobro, but that's just a matter of personal taste. After all, I don't care for the sound of the Susaphone very much, but I admire people who play them. I spend as much time playing the Dobro as I do the pedal steel guitar, and when I do I miss having the pedals. I regard the Dobro as being more of a folk instrument and the pedal steel as being more of a 20th century instrument. It's all consistent with my split personality of playing the lute and recording mediaeval music, and then playing country and blues music. I like music of all types. (Except rap; that's not music.) 
Compare these three numbers. They're all me multiple-tracked, playing all the instruments:-
http://picosong.com/4MeV
http://picosong.com/9sZ2
http://picosong.com/2nKJ |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 14 Apr 2015 11:30 am
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I've just noticed that I never posted the copedent I ended up with. The asterisks mark planned changes I haven't fitted yet. I may move P8 to the right hand side.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Charlie McDonald
From:
out of the blue
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Posted 14 Apr 2015 11:49 am
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Are R<and> for the B6 side?
I have yet to understand these two pedals as 'several ways to get D's and D#'s at the same time.
Is that the reason, they're strictly uni changes?
Aside from that, you have the pedals in the right locations.
And of course, the left knee levers.
I liked the National Bank Blues, Alan. (I like it when music accompanies the posting. Keeps me in time.)
_________________
Those that say don't know; those that know don't say.--Buddy Emmons |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 14 Apr 2015 12:00 pm
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RKR doubles as the normal E lowers, then if you push it past the ½ stop it lowers string 8 to D, imitating what P6 would do.
RKL is an old-fashioned E9 lever in disguise. String 2 works back to front, raising in two steps instead of lowering. The string 9 raise in conjunction with the A pedal works like the 9th string lower on the E9.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Tony Smart
From:
Harlow. Essex. England
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Posted 24 May 2015 7:18 am
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Ian, very interesting project.
Did you have any engineering/mechanical experience before this, and what tools/equipment did you use?
Please let's have an update with some clips if possible.
Some of us are born Great. Some achieve Greatness.
Most of us just Grate......  |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 24 May 2015 3:05 pm
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Tony, thank you. I was brought up to use my hands and they taught us a bit of metalwork at school to go with the maths and physics. But I have no special qualifications or equipment. What helped me most is that I'm a planner, not a tinkerer - I did a fair bit of research and drew a lot of pictures before I bought any metal!
I haven't done any further mods since November - I've just been enjoying playing it. I keep meaning to do a demo video - thanks for the prompt!
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Dennis Olearchik
From:
Newtown, PA
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Posted 19 Jun 2015 12:17 pm
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| This was such an interesting and informative post. Thank you, Ian! |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 30 Jun 2015 11:41 am
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There was a thread a while back about wobbly legs, but I can't find it. Anyway, I have been thus afflicted for some time. When I first threw the cabinet together I was keen to get on and see if the mechanism worked, and I didn't really consider the problem.
Now that it's been in use for about a year, the square aluminium legs in square aluminium holes have worn a bit loose, so I've fitted some triangular plates (gussets? trunnions?) to the rear legs. Any kind of diagonal bracing at the front is an aesthetic no-no for me, but I figured that as the knee levers are towards the rear, something at the back should help, and I'm pleased to report that it does.
The new pieces travel attached to the legs, and to set up I now need to fit six screws instead of four, which I don't mind.
I also put a flag on the LKL as I can't move it any further back.
I missed this lever at an unfortunate moment on my second ever gig and vowed to fix it. More mods to come.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 30 Jun 2015 12:07 pm
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Now all you need is to finish the wood and put your name on the front. If I had built something as sophisticated as what you've done I would be proud to put my identity on it. Have you thought up a name for the guitar, yet? What about Raeflow? That seems appropriate, since you live so close to the River Rea. 
I can't wait to see and hear this instrument in the flesh when I come over in a month or two.  |
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Brint Hannay
From:
Maryland, USA
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Posted 30 Jun 2015 12:20 pm
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| Ian Rae wrote: |
| RKR doubles as the normal E lowers, then if you push it past the ½ stop it lowers string 8 to D, imitating what P6 would do. |
How is that accomplished mechanically? What happens with string 4 when you push past the half stop? |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 30 Jun 2015 1:28 pm
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The mechanism works the same as the S2/9 lower on a typical E9, where when S9 hits C#, S2 has hit D and you can push on down to C#, compressing a spring as you go. I won't describe mine in detail, as I don't have any decent pics and I'm just about to start revising it anyway.
Normally on a uni, S4 would turn around and go back up to E as S8 goes down to D - this is what the full P6 does. I thought this was unnecessarily complicated. If I want to play the full E7 chord that P6 normally supplies, I raise S9 (B) to D instead.
Hope that answers you, Brint, at least for the time being!
Alan, the wood is finished! It's B&Q furniture board and it's already as beautiful as it can ever be. I have a name - Fernwood (that's where I live) - the logo looks very like Fender from a distance, but not enough to get sued.
After my first experience of playing out, I reckon the most useful thing to put on the front would be "THIS IS A PEDAL STEEL GUITAR"
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 12 Aug 2015 5:22 am
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O.K! I finally got round to making a short video. It isn't too exciting, but it demonstrates the double-action RKR, which lowers the Es and then goes on to lower 8 to D. That way I don't need a P6 and I can get one foot on 5&7. There - I've told you now - so no need to watch....
http://youtu.be/PHWgRMoazeM
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 5 Oct 2015 11:02 am
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Since I last posted on this thread I've had the changer apart and narrowed the string spacing from 3/8", which was a mistake, to 9mm, which is the closest I can get to 11/32" (8.73mm) with the materials and methods at my disposal. This involved making a new rear bar for the split tuning screws. It is exactly the same as the old one except that the holes are closer together. I plated it myself this time - no more paying someone else. The kit cost $120 and will soon pay for itself. In the before and after photos you will see that the copper washers which I had to put in so that the fingers lined up with the holes in the old rear bar have disappeared, so it looks as it should. It was a much bigger job than it should have been, because although the spacers on top between the fingers were 3mm thick, it turned out that the yokes inside the changer were actually 1/8" (too fat) so I had to make new ones. (This is an ongoing problem with the half-hearted metrification in Britain. There is plenty of stock being sold as metric which is clearly being produced with old dies.) Now to rod it up and see how it feels.
I have also taken the opportunity to move P8 back to its traditional place so that P5 is next to the A pedal. I feel as though this could be handy - we shall see.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Dave Grothusen
From:
Scott City, Ks
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Posted 5 Oct 2015 1:42 pm
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| I'm impressed. I tried to build an airplane one time and could not stay focused. Looks like you are doing well. |
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Sonny Jenkins
From:
Texas Masonic Retirement Center,,,Arlington Tx
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Posted 5 Oct 2015 3:51 pm
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| Ian has done a FANTASTIC job on this project,,,,he's the one who inspired me to tackle my "homemade" Kline project,,,after (if ever) I finish this restoration project,,,,LOL. |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 6 Oct 2015 3:01 pm
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I have all the rods back on except for the least used changes, and it feels good. Because of the taper of the neck, at the point in front of the pickup where I pick, the strings do actually measure 11/32" apart and it doesn't feel so home-made any more.
Early days, but having pedals A, 5 & 7 together could be quite liberating. Before I forget to mention it, to avoid having to take all the strings off while I had the changer out I did this cheat:-
I don't think you could do that with a normal keyhead. Next time I'll include a strip of rubber or plastic in the sandwich to keep them neat but it wasn't a problem as they all went back on fine.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 20 Dec 2015 11:57 am
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I promised to post some pictures of Ian and his amazing project as soon as I was able. I had the pleasure of visiting Ian a couple of weeks ago, and here are the photos I took at the time, which show about as much detail of his new guitar as you could wish for.
It's a magnificent piece of work, especially as it's a one-off first time project from someone who has never built a pedal steel guitar before.
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 20 Dec 2015 3:30 pm
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It was good to see you, Alan - I didn't realise you'd taken quite so many photos! Now to look at the 3D version...
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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