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Topic: Replacing tuning machines |
Scott Duckworth
From:
Etowah, TN Western Foothills of the Smokies
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Posted 9 May 2014 1:47 pm |
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My GFI SM-10 has these tuning machines. If you were to replace them, what would you recommend to use with as little modification needed?
Also, would anyone know who makes the machines in the above picture?
Reason I'm asking is I saw where Mark Roeder did his SM-10 (but changed the MSA keyheads). I'd rather keep the original keyheads if I can. (NOTE: This is Mark's picture below.)
_________________
Amateur Radio Operator NA4IT (Extra)
http://www.qsl.net/na4it
I may, in fact, be nuts. However, I am screwed onto the right bolt... Jesus!
Last edited by Scott Duckworth on 9 May 2014 2:40 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 9 May 2014 2:01 pm
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Maybe someone has the exact info for you and you won't need this info but if not:
http://www.stewmac.com/
has a large assortment of tuners and they have technical drawings showing all vital dimensions so you can tell if they will match up with your holes & spacing. It appears to me that these are identical to covered tuners, minus the covers. The covers pop right off so it should not be a concern. |
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Scott Duckworth
From:
Etowah, TN Western Foothills of the Smokies
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Posted 9 May 2014 2:16 pm
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Thanks Jon. I had been looking at their Grover 210s. I was hoping someone had already done it. I'll have to examine it more closely next time I change strings. I'm thinking at the least I will have to drill out the trough hole.
_________________
Amateur Radio Operator NA4IT (Extra)
http://www.qsl.net/na4it
I may, in fact, be nuts. However, I am screwed onto the right bolt... Jesus! |
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Howard Montgomery
From:
Topeka, KS US
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Len Amaral
From:
Rehoboth,MA 02769
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Posted 9 May 2014 7:37 pm
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| May want to contact GFI as the hole dimensions may be different and you wouldn't want to drill or manipulate the current hole. Just a thought? |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 10 May 2014 3:03 am
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If its not broke, don't fix it.
_________________
GFI Ultra Keyless S-10 with pad (Black of course) TB202 amp, Hilton VP, Steelers Choice sidekick seat
Cakewalk by Bandlab and Studio One V4.6 pro DAWs, MOTU Ultralite MK5 recording interface unit (for sale) |
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Scott Duckworth
From:
Etowah, TN Western Foothills of the Smokies
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Posted 10 May 2014 3:12 am
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That's just it Jack, they are getting sloppy.
_________________
Amateur Radio Operator NA4IT (Extra)
http://www.qsl.net/na4it
I may, in fact, be nuts. However, I am screwed onto the right bolt... Jesus! |
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Per Berner
From:
Skövde, Sweden
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Posted 10 May 2014 4:42 am
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These look like they would probably fit (compare measurements first!). Probably not much better than the ones you have, though. I have yet to find "economy" tuners of any kind, especially non-adjustable ones with diagonal mounting holes, that are any good at all. They are simply not built neither to last nor function precisely, only to be dirt cheap.
http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tuners/Guitar,_solid_peghead_tuners/Economy_Tuners/Economy_Open_Gear_3+3_Tuners.html?tab=Pictures
If I were you, I'd make or get a new set of keyheads (not drilled for mounting screws) and install proper tuning machines. |
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Scott Duckworth
From:
Etowah, TN Western Foothills of the Smokies
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Posted 10 May 2014 8:35 am
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Thanks Per. I definitely want to replace them with a better machine, and the new keyhead may be the best bet. These would be easy to replicate with a couple of rectangular aluminum bars.
_________________
Amateur Radio Operator NA4IT (Extra)
http://www.qsl.net/na4it
I may, in fact, be nuts. However, I am screwed onto the right bolt... Jesus! |
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Bobby D. Jones
From:
West Virginia, USA
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Posted 10 May 2014 7:54 pm Replacing Tuning Machines
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| Scott, I ordered 2 sets of 6 each Grover Replacement keys on MSA S10. Part 102-18C One of the things that I ran into was. I suppose to compete on the world market they had made the shafts slightly larger. The replacement set I got has hole size as .391=25/64. Would fit a 10mm hole. I though 10 holes drilled out would be easy. I got the holes drilled out and then came the screw that holds the tuner from rotating. It had a head to large to go down beside the gear case. It was a hardened self taping screw. Had to put them in my lathe and turn them and grind the head down with a Dremel tool with a wheel. What I thought would be a 3 hour job. Took several hours. Check close and measure to fit. Good Luck. |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 11 May 2014 2:31 am
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I would contact GFI. They may have replacement tuners that will fit without major modifications. The ones they use on their other models may fit. That would be better than trying to make something else work.
_________________
GFI Ultra Keyless S-10 with pad (Black of course) TB202 amp, Hilton VP, Steelers Choice sidekick seat
Cakewalk by Bandlab and Studio One V4.6 pro DAWs, MOTU Ultralite MK5 recording interface unit (for sale) |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 11 May 2014 1:55 pm
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" they are getting sloppy."
Hmmmm! Tuners should last a long time! Can you see wear in the gears? Can you tighten the screws that hold the gears on? |
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Dave Magram
From:
San Jose, California, USA
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Posted 11 May 2014 3:01 pm
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Scott,
Are you sure you need new tuning pegs? It would be pretty frustrating to install new tuning pegs, and then find out that the tuning problem is still there, wouldn't it?
In my experience, it's unusual for tuning pegs to go bad unless they are really really old and/or weren't maintained properly, or have been abused by letting them hit the bottom of the guitar case because the guitar wasn't supported properly in the case.
Are the strings not returning to pitch after engaging the pedals?
- If the roller-nuts are sticky, that can cause the strings to not return to pitch. (You didn't put any of that so-called "dry" Tri-Flow with paraffin [sold in bicycle shops] in the roller-nuts, did you? That will definitely mess up your roller-nuts.) 
There are a couple of other things that may be going on with your guitar changer or return springs that could be causing tuning problems.
Before you replace these pegs, it might be worth a call to GFI to describe the problem, or have an experienced repair-person take a look.
Good luck.
Dave |
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Scott Duckworth
From:
Etowah, TN Western Foothills of the Smokies
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Posted 11 May 2014 5:06 pm
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I have talked to GFI. I have the older version of their SM-10, which has the open machines pictured at the top of this thread. Their newer Ping tuners or keyheads will not fit the older version.
These have some slop in the gearing that makes it had to get right on the note. Normally, with these, you have to go below the note until the slop releases, then try to sneak up on the tone.
If anyone knows a way to adjust these to get rid of the slop, let me know.
_________________
Amateur Radio Operator NA4IT (Extra)
http://www.qsl.net/na4it
I may, in fact, be nuts. However, I am screwed onto the right bolt... Jesus! |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 12 May 2014 2:34 am
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The standard practice when tuning is to go lower than pitch and then bring the string back up to pitch. Regardless of what tuners are used and whether a pedal steel, lap steel, 6 string guitar, etc.
_________________
GFI Ultra Keyless S-10 with pad (Black of course) TB202 amp, Hilton VP, Steelers Choice sidekick seat
Cakewalk by Bandlab and Studio One V4.6 pro DAWs, MOTU Ultralite MK5 recording interface unit (for sale) |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 12 May 2014 8:29 am
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| Can you tighten the screws that hold the gears onto the tuner shafts? Or are there no screws? |
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Scott Duckworth
From:
Etowah, TN Western Foothills of the Smokies
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Posted 12 May 2014 8:31 am
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John, there are screws, I'll try that. Thanks
_________________
Amateur Radio Operator NA4IT (Extra)
http://www.qsl.net/na4it
I may, in fact, be nuts. However, I am screwed onto the right bolt... Jesus! |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 12 May 2014 11:25 am
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Is it not natural to tune any stringed instrument from below? It avoids any misleading friction or backlash. Fiddle players do it, and they've no moving parts to worry about - they're just making sure the friction in the peg is working the right way.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Scott Duckworth
From:
Etowah, TN Western Foothills of the Smokies
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Posted 12 May 2014 1:18 pm
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I understand that you "tune up" a stringed instrument. I am looking at doing the replacement because of the slop in the machines.
_________________
Amateur Radio Operator NA4IT (Extra)
http://www.qsl.net/na4it
I may, in fact, be nuts. However, I am screwed onto the right bolt... Jesus! |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 12 May 2014 1:57 pm
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Yes, I agree the slop is annoying as I have Grover machines similar to yours, good once but old now. If I overshoot, some of them are laborious to get back down. I don't plan to change them until I do a complete overhaul, so meanwhile I accept them as a test of concentration 
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Charles Priesing Jr.
From:
Maine, USA
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Posted 12 May 2014 3:08 pm
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Hi Scott,I replaced the ping tuners on my gfi sm10 with Grover rotomatics. They won't quite fit on the original key heads so I made new ones from 3/4" aluminum square stock. I cut with a saber saw, shaped with files and sanded. I used the original key heads as a template and cut holes with a drill press then polished. The job took a while as I made some mistakes. Measure twice, cut once. Definitely worth the effort. The ping tuners worked OK but felt sloppy to me. The Grovers can be adjusted a little tighter for the thin strings and feels more positive. I will try to post photo's. [img]
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Scott Duckworth
From:
Etowah, TN Western Foothills of the Smokies
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Posted 12 May 2014 6:03 pm
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Charles, you da' man! That's what I was looking for, and thinking about doing. I even have access to a metal bandsaw. One question (I think)... did you use the original mounting hole locations in the guitar?
_________________
Amateur Radio Operator NA4IT (Extra)
http://www.qsl.net/na4it
I may, in fact, be nuts. However, I am screwed onto the right bolt... Jesus! |
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Charles Priesing Jr.
From:
Maine, USA
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Posted 13 May 2014 3:19 pm
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| Scott, I did not drill any new holes in the guitar and kept the original string angle and spacing as close as possible. I did end up having to shim #5 and 6 string tuners very slightly because they touched. My guitar tunes quick and easy now and stays that way. |
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Scott Duckworth
From:
Etowah, TN Western Foothills of the Smokies
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Posted 14 May 2014 3:00 am
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Sounds like a project for me. Thanks again for the info!
_________________
Amateur Radio Operator NA4IT (Extra)
http://www.qsl.net/na4it
I may, in fact, be nuts. However, I am screwed onto the right bolt... Jesus! |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 14 May 2014 4:43 am
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You can consider Sperzel as well. Be sure when you get them you have 5 of each shafts, they come in sets of 3x3...fit should be ok, the Steel guitar guys didn't re-invent the hole size ...
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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