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Topic: rusty strings |
Ruth Iseli-Dahler
From:
Switzerland
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Posted 5 May 2014 1:04 pm |
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Living in Europe, I thought it was smart to bring a whole bunch of Dobro- and PSG strings over from my visit in Dallas.
Thought.
Somehow they all have rusty spots now.
It is not humid where I live. I guess it happened due to the day/night temperature difference in the room they were stored.
Any experiences in playing rusty strings, or how to get the rust off? I started using them anyway to practice home and none broke so far but it does not feel good to play them on a gig.
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Mullen Pre-RP D10, Emmons D10, Mullen G2 SD10, Dobros |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 5 May 2014 2:12 pm
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Rusty Strings is my stage name. Sorry. I couldn't resist.
That's a problem with stocking up on strings. The fresher, the better.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, NV400, NV112 . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 5 May 2014 2:54 pm
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You might try a Blitz cloth.
BLITZ
The link below is the company's description and instructions.
CLICK
I recently took an old lap steel out of the case for the first time in a long time and the plain strings sounded scratchy under the bar (and felt very rough). The cloth took care of it.
They describe using it on wound strings too--I'm so sure about this. |
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Les Cargill
From:
Oklahoma City, Ok, USA
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Posted 5 May 2014 2:54 pm
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I will clean my strings with those green plastic Scotchbrite pads. Should take rust right off. Be careful on the underside of the strings, between the fretboard and strings.
A little Windex (blue ammonia-based window cleaner ) might also help before doing this. Some folks don't like Windex on guitars; I've never had a problem with it. Ammonia is good for removing rust, and the amount in window cleaner is not enough to be too toxic. If you're worried about fumes, do this in an open, outdoor are.
I also do this on 6-string guitars. Fold the pad around the string.
http://tiny.cc/5esefx |
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Daniel McKee
From:
Corinth Mississippi
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Posted 5 May 2014 3:01 pm
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| I have used just regular rubbing alcohol and it does great when there are a few rusty spots. |
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Ruth Iseli-Dahler
From:
Switzerland
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Posted 5 May 2014 11:57 pm
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some good ideas, will check them out, thank you so much.
And sorry, Mister Rusty Strings, that was sure funny, why is this your stage Name ? 
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Mullen Pre-RP D10, Emmons D10, Mullen G2 SD10, Dobros |
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Carl Kilmer
From:
East Central, Illinois
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Posted 6 May 2014 4:17 am
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I just rub them with a piece of very fine steel wool.
It always works well and makes the strings smooth.
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aka "Lucky Kay"--Custom built Rittenberry SD10 3X5, Walker S/S, NV-112, and Hilton Pedal |
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Ruth Iseli-Dahler
From:
Switzerland
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Posted 6 May 2014 4:54 am
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ok; so far it seems that nobody would throw them away or cook em as spaghetti :
Was a little scared that they would brake easier, escpecially the thin ones.
I seem not to be the only one, having and using rusty strings (sorry,Richard) that feels relaxing
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Mullen Pre-RP D10, Emmons D10, Mullen G2 SD10, Dobros |
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Sid Hudson
From:
Virginia, USA
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Posted 6 May 2014 5:51 am Re: rusty strings
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| Ruth Iseli-Dahler wrote: |
Living in Europe, I thought it was smart to bring a whole bunch of Dobro- and PSG strings over from my visit in Dallas.
Thought.
Somehow they all have rusty spots now.
It is not humid where I live. I guess it happened due to the day/night temperature difference in the room they were stored.
Any experiences in playing rusty strings, or how to get the rust off? I started using them anyway to practice home and none broke so far but it does not feel good to play them on a gig. |
Ruth, It is not my intention to hijack this thread but I do feel the need to contribute.
I know they were not Live Steel Strings because I did not attend Dallas this year.
What ever the brand was I am sorry you had problems. I whole heartedly agree with Richard. It can be a bad idea stocking up on large quantities of strings.
Some string manufactures make huge quantities of strings at a time. They are then stored on their warehouse shelf.
Now the dealer needs strings. He/she calls the manufacturer and places his/her order.
They now lay on the dealer’s shelf until they are sold. How old are the strings when they get to the customers steel seat? Who knows?
Customer buys 6 sets of E9 strings. How old is last set of strings before they make it to the guitar? Good grief, who knows?
So, there is really not much difference in the strings being stored on the warehouse shelf as opposed to your steel seat. Still not a good idea.
Nothing is better than a fresh/recently made set of steel guitar strings. Nothing.
A great sounding string must be extremely well balanced when made. The diameter of the wire must be consistent. Balance promotes a good vibrating wire.
A poorly balanced string will not vibrate as long. Thus, sustain is greatly reduced.
If your strings have rust on them they are bad.
If you clean the rust off the only thing you have done is make them feel better. The strings will still have the pits in them caused by the corrosion and they are extremely unbalanced.
Will they still make a sound? Yes
Do they sound like a new string? No.
So what’s the best way to get rust off your steel guitar strings?
3 corner file, sandpaper, scotchbrite, steel wool? Doesn’t really matter.
The strings are bad and that to me is poor management and unacceptable. You paid for new.....you should receive new!
Last edited by Sid Hudson on 6 May 2014 6:52 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Ruth Iseli-Dahler
From:
Switzerland
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Posted 6 May 2014 6:50 am
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Thank you Sid. That was interesting.
What about printing the date, the strings were manufactured, on the package?
_________________
Mullen Pre-RP D10, Emmons D10, Mullen G2 SD10, Dobros |
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Rick Kreuziger
From:
Merrillan, Wisconsin
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Posted 6 May 2014 7:04 am
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As a preventive measure I put a couple dessicant packets
in a zip lock baggie with my extra string sets.
Can't hurt.. but I still don't buy years worth of strings ahead of time. |
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Sid Hudson
From:
Virginia, USA
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Posted 6 May 2014 7:06 am
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| Rick Kreuziger wrote: |
As a preventive measure I put a couple dessicant packets
in a zip lock baggie with my extra string sets.
Can't hurt.. but I still don't buy years worth of strings ahead of time. |
Excellent idea |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 6 May 2014 11:30 am
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One thing Sid didn't mention this time that I think is relevant is that the plain steel wires are plated/coated to prevent rust (otherwise plain steel starts rusting VERY quickly). If they start to rust, the plating is gone in that spot and will start to flake off near the rust spot. I can't imagine a flaky plating will sound good.
Also, as it rusts, it gets thinner
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 6 May 2014 11:48 am
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Well Ruth, it seems that it is cool these days for musicians to have stage names. The name Rusty seems to be a little popular in the steel guitar community. There's Rusty Young, Rusty Rhoades and Rusty Danmeyer. Now we have Rust Strings. 
I can see Ruth's reasoning for buy quantities of strings when she is in the U.S. I'm sure steel guitar sets are not easy to come by in Switzerland and having them shipped from the U.S. may involve duties and high shipping costs (an assumption as I really don't know for sure what requirements there are in shipping to there). But I would ask Sid if he can ship to Switzerland and what the costs might be. Sids strings are so fresh they almost bling me because of their brightness.
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Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, NV400, NV112 . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Ruth Iseli-Dahler
From:
Switzerland
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Posted 6 May 2014 11:56 am
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Stage names.......haha, we might import that as well to europe, I'd prefer not to be called "Rusty Ruth" then
I can tell you that I paid 44 bucks for a item worth 28 lately......customs and shipping and taxes can be high......
I will check out the LSS and if they become my favourite and lasts as long as I read here, then I will pick up the next charge in Dallas......
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Mullen Pre-RP D10, Emmons D10, Mullen G2 SD10, Dobros |
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Tony Smart
From:
Harlow. Essex. England
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Posted 6 May 2014 11:57 am
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Are plain strings tin plated? The type of corrosion looks like it.
Always wondered about this. |
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Glenn Suchan
From:
Austin, Texas
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Posted 6 May 2014 11:59 am
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After reading all of the remarks regarding string deterioration in this thread, I am left with some nagging questions with respect to unused (still in their packaging) strings: Can anyone reading or posting on this thread quantify the type and degree of degradation and apply that to a time frame? In other words, in what way do unused strings deteriorate; and how long does it take? Also, does this deterioration depend on the environment they're kept in? It seems to me that high carbon steel alloys are relatively stable over time, if they're kept from corroding.
From what I've been able to find, plain guitar strings and the cores of wound guitar strings are made from music wire (ASTM A228). Sid, does that sound correct? If so, ASTM A228 is made up of about 98% iron, 0.85% carbon, about 0.4% manganese and the the remaining amount comprised of small amounts of silicon, phosphorous and sulfur. Music wire does have a relatively high corrosion rate. Corrosion in this case refers to the native iron oxide layer (rust). From what I've been able to discover, rust forms in single layers (aka) mono layers. Depending the conditions by which they form, a single mono layer of rust can be anywhere from 3 angstroms (about three ten billionths of a meter) to 1 micron (about one millionth of a meter) thick. Because of the nature of rust, each layer leaves fissures in it's surface which allows oxidization to surfaces in the fissures, forming successive mono layers.
In my mind (what little is left of it), it would seem these multiple layers are but a small portion of the total mass of a string. With the careful removal of this rust, the remaining string should be perfectly fine until it degrades through usage.
From personal experience, I've bought Jagwire Strings in quantity and stored them several years. I store them in their original packaging, in a box, kept in a cool, dry room and none of these strings have formed any rust.
After I install them on the guitar they always sound fresh and crisp and hold their tuning well. I'll note; my hands sweat very little if at all, which may contribute to my experience of string longevity after installation.
So... are unused strings really subject to any appreciable amount of degradation, if stored properly?
Keep on pickin'!
Glenn
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Steelin' for Jesus |
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Ruth Iseli-Dahler
From:
Switzerland
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Posted 8 May 2014 1:29 pm
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| Quote: |
| Quote: |
| Can anyone reading or posting on this thread quantify the type and degree of degradation and apply that to a time frame? In other words, in what way do unused strings deteriorate; and how long does it take? Also, does this deterioration depend on the environment they're kept in? |
Some of my strings have been stored one year, some 2 years. They have brown spots mainly where they touch the paper and each other, will say where the ball end is. |
Never watered them! But it happened.
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Mullen Pre-RP D10, Emmons D10, Mullen G2 SD10, Dobros |
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Don Griffiths
From:
Steelville, MO
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Posted 8 May 2014 2:59 pm
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Thank you Sid Hudson for chiming in.
I have made the mistake of buying a box of 10 sets of strings once on sale. By the time I got to the 5th or 6th set I noticed corrosion. Tried to clean them and oiled them up. Ended up throwing the rest out. Once corroded they will never sound like fresh new strings again. My thinking is if I'm not putting new strings on, it's not worth changing them.There is nothing like a new set of fresh strings. They just have a nice ring. I could not quantify it,but I have noticed a difference with strings right out of the package that look fresh but have set on the shelf for at least a few years. I could tell by the way the packaging was faded. They tuned OK but just sounded flat. So I buy one or 2 sets at a time now. One good set of fresh lively strings is worth more to me than 10 sets of Dead strings. No more buying off the shelf at the local music store for me, where the Pedal Steel Strings have been setting on the shelf for possibly 10 years.
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Shobud Pro1,BMI U12, Santa Cruz F, PRS Standard, Fender Twin Reverb, ‘53 000-28 |
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Ivan Posa
From:
Hamilton, New Zealand
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Posted 8 May 2014 3:12 pm
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| I store my spare strings in my temperature and humidity controlled Camera cabinet which works very well. |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 8 May 2014 3:27 pm
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i would be surprised if the minute difference in tone from occassional corroded/rusty strings would be discernible on the common man's gig.
blitz cloth wiping pretty much keeps this to a minimum. |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 8 May 2014 3:37 pm
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| I buy singles by the dozen. The are shipped in long plastic sleeves--straight, not coiled--with desiccant bags. They do not degrade in any way over long periods of time. Simply, there is no issue with them. I've been doing this for 15 years and I have no plans or reason to change. |
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Sid Hudson
From:
Virginia, USA
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Posted 8 May 2014 4:59 pm
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| chris ivey wrote: |
i would be surprised if the minute difference in tone from occassional corroded/rusty strings would be discernible on the common man's gig.
blitz cloth wiping pretty much keeps this to a minimum. |
Ok, I am quite certain Chris and I don’t agree on anything.
Right, Wrong or indifferent, this is my personal experience with corroded strings and the use of a Blitz Cloth.
I think most of us can here the difference between good strings and the corroded/dead strings.
I believe we tolerate them longer than we should because most of us (me included) hate the ordeal of changing strings.
But, after all we spend $4000 for a steel guitar, $100s to get the copendent changed to our liking, $100s for a really good tuner, $1,000 for an amp and $500 to $1000 for gadgets all in our quest to find “ THAT SOUND.â€
Yeh, I think all of us can hear the difference between really fresh strings and corroded ones.
To me, it makes no difference the venue being played.
I play for my enjoyment. That’s it.
I want my rig to sound as good as I am capable of making it sound to please me and not the guy wanting to hear Achy Breaky Heart.
At the end of the day, if I leave being satisfied with my sound and performance; it was a good day! Nothing else matters.
As for the Blitz Cloth:
I used a Blitz cloth for short period of time back in the early 80s.
I do remember I did not like them then but could not remember why.
A couple of years ago I decided to revisit the issue of using Blitz cloths for cleaning strings. I ordered 6 of them. I thought if they were great I would give a few away to my friends.
One morning I put new strings on my steel and played for several hours, wiped the strings with the Blitz cloth and turned everything off.
I noticed a lot of black stuff on the Blitz cloth after wiping them.
I thought this was very strange due to the fact that my hands were clean and the strings were brand new and fresh as in off the factory machine 2 weeks ago.
That same afternoon I turned everything on and began to play again.
I immediately noticed that the strings were not as lively as they were a few hours before.
This was very shocking to me. I had never experienced this with any brand of strings and became concerned.
I played for another couple of hours, wiped the strings with the Blitz cloth and turned everything off.
The next morning I sat down to play and noticed that the sound of the strings had deteriorated much further. These babies were dead!
My conclusion:
The black stuff on the Blitz cloth is not dirt. I believe the black on the cloth is metal.
I urge everyone to reconsider cleaning strings with a Blitz Cloth.
Oh……. they will look shiny and feel smooth, but I don’t think that is what we care about.
Now with that being said it does do a wonderful job of cleaning and shining any metal parts on your guitar. |
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Mike Wheeler
From:
Delaware, Ohio, USA
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Posted 8 May 2014 5:35 pm
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Here's an interesting string story.....
I had 2 spare sets of strings left that were about 9 or 10 months old. I decided to change the ones on 2 of my steels, but to my dismay, they had lots of rust spots on every string. I had kept them in a plastic drawer in zip lock baggies, but they went bad anyway. I always trash strings like that. Unfortunately I had already removed the old strings, so now I couldn't play!! Bummer!
So, I bought 4 new sets and inspected them when they arrived. They were fresh and shiny clean. While grumbling about the ones that went bad, my wife came up with a brilliant idea.
We vacuum seal lots of food that we buy on sale, so she said "Why not vacuum seal your new strings?". Wow!! Great idea, so I vacuum sealed the 2 extra sets (and, no, they weren't in those nice individually sealed bags like some strings come in). Now they're airtight and out of humidity's grasp. I expect they'll stay new for years to come.
I think I have a pretty smart wife!
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Best regards,
Mike |
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Sid Hudson
From:
Virginia, USA
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Posted 8 May 2014 5:45 pm
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| Excellent Idea |
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