Giving it away for free

Curt Trisko · From: St. Paul, Minnesota, USA

Ever since I started playing steel a couple years ago, I've had this idea where I could create pedal steel overdubs for youngster amateur songwriters in the area. There's a lot of them and I bet at least a few would appreciate some steel on their songs to set them apart and add character. I think my technique, music theory knowledge, and taste are approaching the level where I can take this idea seriously.

I don't care if these songwriters can't or won't pay for it. It would just be a challenging hobby and a way for me to share my love of the instrument with others. It would also be touching to see the songwriters craft their songs and incorporate my playing into it.

Here's the thing: I don't want to be giving something away for free when some other steeler is trying to make money by providing a better product than I could. With how people exchange tracks on the internet, it could affect a steeler on the other side of the country.

On the other hand, me doing this could develop exposure for the steel that could lead to work for another steeler performing live or performing with another artist. I simply don't know how this would play out so I'm asking you. It's probably not a big deal, but there aren't many steelers and I see people complain on here about the declining amount of work that's available.

Larry Jackson · From: Morrilton, AR

I can see your point, Curt. It would be kind of fun to lay down a track over a new song. I'm certainly not there yet, but I can see the appeal from a creative standpoint. You might try surfing around Reverbnation. There are a lot of songwriters on there that might be interested...I'm sure there are other similar sites...
_________________
BMI S10, Beard E model reso, Gold Tone Deluxe Beard Sig. reso, Guild acoustic guitar

Rich Peterson · From: Moorhead, MN

You are offering yourself as an unpaid intern; unpaid internships are acceptable.

It matters whether the recording is done in a commercial studio or a home recording environment. In a commercial studio, time is money. A seasoned pro can lay down tracks in 2 or 3 takes; you are unlikely to match that performance. Intonation, consistent tone, flawless execution.... anything lacking in your skills will show up in a recording.

Go ahead and do it. When you approach a level where you feel you should get paid, you'll stop doing it for free.

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

Mixed feelings here. Do want you want to do. But when musicians work for free, it hurts the musician and other musicians. You will earn a reputation as a freebie player and it will be hard to shake later. Why should they pay you now when you did it for free last time. And, as you said , you might be taking away paid work from someone who depends on that money for his living. I did some studio work back when I had only been playing maybe 5 years. I never had to work for nothing. It was mostly demos for songwriters so they could shop their songs.

The same is true for bands. one of the problems we face these days, is bands that will play a gig for little or nothing. Why should they pay for my band that charges for a gig, when I get another band for little to nothing.

So, I would charge them, even if it's just a little bit. You don't want to earn the reputation of being a freebie player.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, NV400, NV112 . Playing for 54 years and still counting.

Doug Beaumier · From: Northampton, MA

I agree with Richard. You don't want to get a reputation as "the guy who will play for free". I think you should charge something, if only a nominal amount to cover your time.
_________________
My Site / My YouTube Channel
25 Songs C6 Lap Steel / 25 MORE Songs C6 Lap Steel / 16 Songs, C6, A6, B11 / 60 Popular Melodies E9 Pedal Steel

Curt Trisko · From: St. Paul, Minnesota, USA

Thanks Richard. I don't ever plan on making money with my playing, I just don't want to undermine someone else who does.

I think the solution probably is to distinguish between the amateur musicians who simply wouldn't put pedal steel in their songs if they had to pay and those who would; and then to just volunteer to the first category.

How do you tell the difference? Most musicians I know are in the first category. They do home recordings and utilize all the free or low-cost resources on the internet to create their product... and sometimes it's not too bad. Maybe they pay some money to have CDs pressed or what not, but I don't think they've ever really paid other musicians in anything other than pizza and beer.

Curt Trisko · From: St. Paul, Minnesota, USA

What's a good nominal amount, $50 to compose and record a pedal steel track for a song or two? That's enough to probably make some young kids think twice, but probably not enough to create competition for another pedal steel player.

I've seen a couple advertisements on webpages for pedal steel players to remotely create pedal steel tracks for songs. I suppose I could ask them.

EDIT: Also, the last thing I'd want to have happen is to have a songwriter choose me and my budding skills over a much better player just because I'm cheap or free. That wouldn't do anyone justice.

Doug Beaumier · From: Northampton, MA

Tom Gorr · From: Three Hills, Alberta

Everybody has a talent, not everyone has disposable income.

Maybe consider exchanging your talent on someone else's project for their talent on one of yours. That builds a relationship.

Free, or paid work is a transactionary act of commerce.

Exchange of talent builds friendship and community.

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

Curt Trisko · From: St. Paul, Minnesota, USA

How about discriminating by age? When this idea popped in my head, I assumed it would be younger people only. But come to think of it, there's a fair share of older guys who make music as a hobby and who either have cash laying around or they don't know any better than to not spend it. What's your guys' experience with those types of people? I bet a good number of people on this forum fall in that category.

Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

Based on what I think I hear you saying, I would recommend you post a local Craigslist ad in the Musicians section for "Pedal Steel Player Available for local Recording Projects".
Then specify that you are willing to provide a demo of your ability for free, and that if they would like you to spend more time recording, you would like to negotiate a win-win agreement on pay based on the time involved and/or number of songs.
You could also print an ad for display at local Singer/Songwriter haunts and music store bulletin boards.
Something along those lines might allow you to test the local market.
I just searched the Musicians section in your area and I don't think you are taking any work away from anybody.

Rich Peterson · From: Moorhead, MN

Offer to play in exchange for studio time.

Curt Trisko · From: St. Paul, Minnesota, USA

I was thinking of doing it by word-of-mouth so that way they come with a personal reference. Just putting up an ad or flyer probably wouldn't accomplish much with the young musician crowd here in the Twin Cities because there's simply a lack of awareness of the pedal steel. There's tons of amateur musicians, but sometimes it seems like they're all drawing from the same musical sources and use sparse instrumentation or digital instrumentation. I've had guests over for jams and when they hear the pedal steel, they say, "oh, that's where that sound comes from." If I had to tell a songwriter what a pedal steel could add to their song, I'd just tell them to think of it as a string section.

Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

David Shepack · From: New Jersey, USA

Curt, There is nothing like a gig to get you motivated to polish up your skills.
I was approached by a wealthy wife who had heard my recordings, and wanted me to record her husband. Having to pay, scared them off.
Nowadays, most kids can record themselves on their computer, and don't have much money.
I treat every gig situation differently. Is the client making money off of the recording, or is it furthering their career? Are you getting exposure or building your reputation, or really enjoying yourself. Sometimes other things are more important than money. But unless it is a friend, I charge something.
_________________
Maverick
Fender Blues Deville
Flatiron Mandolin
Gibson RB4 Banjo

Ray Montee · From: Portland, Oregon (deceased)

When I was but a youth..........

I rented 3 hours of studio time for $40.00 an hour

I watched the vinyl peel off of the disc as it was grooving the record.

Not some of my best music ever played, however the investment proved to be worth every dime....for it served as the back-bone of my learning experience.

Barry Blackwood · Posted 7 Apr 2014 9:51 am

Words of wisdom, Ray.
Curt, I'm not too sure if your altruistic approach here is such a worthy idea. Only when you have careened down that slippery slope will you know if you made the right decision..

Curt Trisko · From: St. Paul, Minnesota, USA

Barry Blackwood · Posted 7 Apr 2014 11:14 am

Curt, your competition awaits..
http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/nashvillewire
http://www.steelloops.com/

Tom Gorr · From: Three Hills, Alberta

Curt, your bolded comments bring up a entire new nuance that should be its own thread.

There are mindsets that are probably required when working on other people's creative works. The first is that they are the boss - it's their song, and they are hiring for skilled hands moreso than creative brains: there are singer songwriters that actually have a very specific part they wish to put down, but don't have the specific instrumental skills to do it. Most singer songwriters aren't Mozart's and while they may have ideas, they are limited by their own lack of experience and imagination.

Other songwriters have an idea of feel or mood they are trying to accomplish but no specific musical idea, so you have to spoonfeed ideas until they find one they like.

Then, there's guys that don't have an internalized standard, and will accept and try to work with anything you throw at them.

It all makes for a very interesting dynamic and takes quite a view of life and people and self as a studio musician to survive, I would bet.

Curt Trisko · From: St. Paul, Minnesota, USA

Yeah, you're right, Tom. I suppose if I'm going to add steel to someone else's song, I have to follow their vision. But you wouldn't believe how many amateur musicians around here try hard to get a retro folk or blues sound. If it's not done well, it sounds like a parody.

Brett Lanier · From: Madison, TN

Gillian Welch wrote what I think is a great song on this subject. Here it is, for free.
http://youtu.be/uePsL2ulb3M

Bud Angelotti · From: Larryville, NJ, USA

My humble opinion.
Working for free is usually not a good idea.
As was already mentioned, it "dilutes" the waters. My words.
However, there are always the exceptions to the rules.
For friends, REAL friends, I would do anything for free, as they have done for me. And, doing something for someone that CAN'T do it themselves is probably one of the very best ways to MAKE friends. So there ya go! Two sides to the coin.
Not to go into Jerry land, but I have been led to believe that the steel on "teach you children" was done for barter. CSN supposedly gave the GD some singing lessons in exchange. Don't want to spread false info, thats just what I've been led to believe.
Cheers!
_________________
Just 'cause I look stupid, don't mean I'm not.

Rick Schacter · From: Portland, Or.

Forum Index > Steel Players	Goto page 1, 2 Next	Next oldest topic :: Next newest topic