Who does/does not make 12 stringers?

Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

We 12 string players have fewer options, including the lack of an economy model. Quite a few builders simply don't make 12 string steels. One even told me he didn't believe in the U-12 tuning, and would not build a guitar with one.

So, who makes then, who does not, and does anybody make an economy model u-12?
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Dustin Rigsby · From: Parts Unknown, Ohio

Ken Campbell · From: Ferndale, Montana

Im really interested in this thread. Chris Ivey got me to thinking about a "hot rod 12 string." I can intellectually agree with the additional potential of the ext e9 and the u 12. Im a Sho-bud nut though so i've stuck with my pro iii.

Roger Crawford · From: Griffin, GA USA

Mullen makes a 12 string pro model, but I've not seen them do an economy model.

Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

Scott Duckworth · From: Etowah, TN Western Foothills of the Smokies

I have an idea 12 string guitars will all be "pro" models. That said, always look for good used ones. Them being "pro" models leads to a quality instrument in the used line.

Glad you started the thread Mike. I too have thought about the U12 tuning, since a D10 is too heavy for me, and the right most pedals hard for me to operate. I do like the C6 tuning and the B6 portion of the U tuning would fit that for me.
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Dustin Rigsby · From: Parts Unknown, Ohio

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

I bet, if you don't mind reaching underneath to tune intermediate raises (because it's a pull-release), Bob Simmons would make you a surprisingly affordable 12. I saw one somewhere. And I've played one: a student had bought one used. Well built, good playing.
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Clark Doughty · From: KANSAS

BMI makes both key and keyless 12 string guitars. In fact there is a great buy on a fairly new 12 string from Terry Wood for $2600 and you're not going to beat that price for a really good guitar.

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=262149

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

An "economy model" should not have more strings than a standard model! Imagine if car companies did that: "Our new economy model features a V8 engine with fuel injection and dual exhausts." Whoa!

Get real, Mike. 12 string pedal steels are on the wrong side of history. 8 strings are the future. Winking

Seriously though, a 12 string pedal steel is like a 7 string guitar. There will always be a small market of folks who like them, but 90% of players are perfectly happy with a standard model.

I was very happy with my D-12 Williams, and Bill was quite accommodating in building it to my specifications. If you're looking for a new 12 string, don't overlook Williams.
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Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

Bobby, I'd definitely consider a Williams if I wanted another high end guitar. I want a relatively cheap knock around guitar. Something like the Sierra Artist, or the Legend (formerly Carpsteel.)

I'd have bought an ETS if Larry Agin had not died and he and Bud had gone ahead with their plans to make one.
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Len Amaral · From: Rehoboth,MA 02769

My complaint about 12 string guitars is most companies use a large body with a pad. My Sierra neck and my Zum neck were in the middle and so was my GFI. But with 7 pedals and 5 or more knee levers I don't see how an economy model can be made. I have come really enjoy the U-12 and take Joe Write's approach using it as one big guitar rather than two tunings. Oh what fun! Smile

David Scheidler · From: Arizona, USA

My Sho-Bud S-12 3+4(ext. E9) is a standard, single-neck size cabinet with no pad. The D2f cover from my older Pro I S-10 surprisingly fits over it - although it is a bit snug. All of the standard SB-12's I've seen, except for one, have sold for under $2k. I saw one SB universal that was completely redone for about $2400, I think. The Emmons standard S-12's also seem fairly reasonably priced, compared to the S-10 models. I won't be needing all the extra hardware for a universal tuning for quite awhile, but at least I have a guitar that's ready for the upgrade when that time arrives. For now, I'm still learning the basic E9 tuning and having fun with the lower strings for thumb picking and playing funky low chords. It's a hoot!

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

How could anyone build an "economy" U-12? For one thing, the number of parts in a U-12 knock it out of the economy price range right off the bat. Features like a 3+3 changer (minimum) and tunable splits are pretty much required. The body has to be bigger and heavier.

The market for economy guitars is beginners. Beginners would spend their first year just trying to get a U-12 in tune! If you just want a cheap U-12, buy an old MSA. There are a lot of them around, thanks to Tom Bradshaw's promotion of them in the 1970s. Those old guitars don't work real well, but neither would a modern "economy" model once the builder figured out where he could cut corners to get the cost down.
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Gil Berry · From: Westminster, CA, USA

Have to disagree with you about those old MSA 12-stringers not working well, Bob. Those things were built like a tank, and if properly set up they're hard to beat. Good action, didn't break strings, and easy pedal pushes. They're also hard to carry. lol. Now, tone is another thing altogether. Some like their tone, many do not.

Rich Peterson · From: Moorhead, MN

The "economy" of student level steels is accomplished by limiting options to a standard. Even welding the bellcranks and locking in the changes. The U-12 hasn't established that level of standardization. Noy everyone has the Jeff Newman copedent.

Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

There seems to be some confusion. I did not ask "Who makes a cheap U-12", I asked who builds 12 string steels and who does not. I asked because I learned that Rittenberry and Doug Earnest do not, and I was wondering which other builders donâ€™t make them.

I also said that I already have 2 great steels and donâ€™t need another. The question was to satisfy my curiosity.

I would like to have a knock around guitar, something along the lines of the Sierra Artist or legend (formerly called the Carpsteel) and if Larry Agin and ETS had survived and built a 12 string, I probably would have gotten one. I would also consider buying a 12 string version of the Encore if Doug made one. I would dispense with the B6 pedals, and just have my version of the E9, with the extended bass strings.

But my question was not â€œwhere can I get a cheap U-12?â€

Apparently, the extra expenses involved in tooling up to build 12 string steels makes it cost prohibitive for some small builders. But I fail to see how adding the extra strings would affect the quality of a guitar. If Doug decided to build a 12 string Encore, does anybody doubt that it would be every bit as good as his 10 string model?
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b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

Builders who advertise 12 string pedal steels:

BMI
Excel
Fessenden
Fulawka
GFI
Lamar
MSA
Mullen
Promat
Show Pro
Williams

Promat's web site claims they have an enonomy S-12 in extended E9th, but I've never seen one mentioned on the forum.
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Len Amaral · From: Rehoboth,MA 02769

Hey bOb:

I agree that an economy U-12 is a non starter. You mentioned the future of an 8 string? Were you just kidding or if it is, what would the ideal setup be?

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

I try not to muddy the waters by promoting it much, Lenny, but I'm performing on my 8 string almost exclusively these days. The tuning is D6 with a few E9th changes. You can see it here. I would get rid of P5 and move LKV to LKR for an economy 4x4 version. Beginners would probably also appreciate a lower of the 6th string root D to C# on RKL (I always use a bar slant for that).

A 10 string version, with a high E and a low D string, would be almost "universal". It wouldn't have some of the modern E9th licks that steel players might want, but it would have all of the pedal steel sounds that the public associates with the instrument.

When you look at a list of Sneaky Pete's recording credits, you realize that a 10-string E9th isn't really necessary to please many artists and producers. I believe that most of our bias towards the current standards is driven by tradition within the steel community, not by the artists we back or their fans.
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Len Amaral · From: Rehoboth,MA 02769

Thanks bOb:

The setup looks intesting and for portability and learning curve it I would like to examine this more. Don't know if I ever will play out again but it appears to be a user freindly setup.

Lenny

Alan Brookes · From: Brummy living in Southern California

I have a Thomas SD12. Nobody seems to have mentioned them yet. Very well made, and sounds great.

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

Thomas is no longer in business. Neither is Kline, nor Sho-Bud. S12's of yesteryear.
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Jim Pitman · From: Waterbury Ctr. VT 05677 USA

Both Franklin and Infinity made some single wide 12 string guitars. Both have stopped I believe.
However, I reject the notion that the D10 is a standard that will never be displaced by U12.

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