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Topic: The Emmons Guitar Company |
Glen Porter
From:
Las Crues, New Mexico, USA
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Posted 5 Apr 2014 6:33 pm |
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Three years back Mike Cass took my order for a new Emmomns Guitar with 500.00 up front and the balance on Completion, with a one year delivery date. 16 months went by and no Guitar,when finally Mike said I would would need to send the balance to Emmons Co. for lashly to continue the build and that I would other wise forfeit the down payment. Well the end of this story is Mike caws still has the 500.00 and I Decided to purchase a very nice Emmons on the Forum for 2000.00 less and saved myself 1500.00.
Last edited by Glen Porter on 6 Apr 2014 7:35 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Jeff Campbell
From:
Knoxville Tennessee, USA
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Posted 5 Apr 2014 10:19 pm Emmons taking to long to build
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I know it takes time to machine out parts and put them together but 16 months and still no guitar!!
I wonder how they do replacement parts for older guitars? I have a push/pull from 1980 brand new and had it all this time, I sure hope I never break anything. I know they have had problems but that's not good business to take the money then forget you ....they must have caller ID? For the paying 500 down and wanting the rest to finish it...I would have replied OK, I will have the money there in 2 days and pick up my guitar while I am there....Don't get me wrong, I love my Emmons but I have a GFI that's just as good to use as it is!! JC |
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Scott Duckworth
From:
Etowah, TN Western Foothills of the Smokies
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Posted 5 Apr 2014 11:10 pm
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Here's my thoughts on this situation... if in fact the owner / builder of Emmons Guitars is having some kind of prolonged health issue, say so. There have been multiple posts dating a few years that spell out problems contacting the company.
A deposit for a guitar is understood. No communication after the deposit is not good. Not answering the phone is not good. If you are unable to build the guitar, refund the deposit and stop taking orders.
All points to the fact Emmons Guitar may be dying.
_________________
Amateur Radio Operator NA4IT (Extra)
http://www.qsl.net/na4it
I may, in fact, be nuts. However, I am screwed onto the right bolt... Jesus! |
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Per Berner
From:
Skövde, Sweden
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Posted 6 Apr 2014 12:24 am
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| This is just weird. Personal problems aside – either you run a business properly, or you don't run it at all. Someone please buy the company (can't be that expensive the way things are going) before it's too late! |
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Dan Beller-McKenna
From:
Durham, New Hampshire, USA
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Posted 6 Apr 2014 2:58 am
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| Just to clarify, Glen: you meant Mike, not a Tommy Cass ( as you said at the beginning of your post). Both go-to Emmons techs, but Tommy is not an Emmons dealer to my knowledge. |
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Buddy Castleberry
From:
HAWKINSVILLE GA USA - R.I.P.
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Posted 6 Apr 2014 5:34 am
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| just my little part ,ordered 2 pickups wound to 022 ohms ,which is special order . he wound them shipped within 10 days .he even called me and i had just been brought back to my room after having neck surgery.we talked a few munites ( i think ) that valum is some good stuff |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 6 Apr 2014 7:58 am
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There have been other reports of getting parts. But a "whole" guitar is another, like the original poster has reported on here several times.
BTW, that is not "022" Ohms, probably 22KOhms.
_________________
GFI Ultra Keyless S-10 with pad (Black of course) TB202 amp, Hilton VP, Steelers Choice sidekick seat
Cakewalk by Bandlab and Studio One V4.6 pro DAWs, MOTU Ultralite MK5 recording interface unit (for sale) |
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Dale Rottacker
From:
Walla Walla Washington, USA
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Steve Spitz
From:
New Orleans, LA, USA
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Posted 6 Apr 2014 11:18 am Not an isolated incident
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I remember this exact scenario happening to one of our members many years ago. I recall it created some tension among the Emmons brand loyalists who felt it was unnecessary to publicly air the situation. After many years and multiple incidents, I think we need to call it what it is.
Regarding help from a dealer, I'd like to think that could help, and maybe it could, but I wouldn't count on it. Is it fair to ask a dealer to act as an intermediary in a transaction he had no part in ? He never took the money, he never made a promise, he was never late on a shipping date, and never received any compensation. Now that the deal is sour, should we expect him to inherit a mess he never created ? Regardless, I can see it as a frustration for a dealer, as these incidents don't inspire confidence in the brand.
I'm not an Emmons Basher. I hate to see a true icon of the industry earn bad press, but I'm more inclined to support the Steel buying Forum member who is struggling to get treated fairly than I am to tip toe around what is a repeated pattern of poor customer service by the manufacturer. |
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Buddy Castleberry
From:
HAWKINSVILLE GA USA - R.I.P.
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Posted 6 Apr 2014 1:38 pm
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jack it was 22k like i said that valum is goog stuff
i just like 22k that way i can crank up the treble on my walker preamp |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 6 Apr 2014 3:38 pm
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| b0b wrote: |
15 months after full payment, and still no guitar? It sounds like you've been robbed. Get your documentation together and talk to a lawyer. 
There is no excuse for taking someone's payment in full and not shipping the product immediately. A deposit makes sense for custom work, but no reputable firm takes payment in full for goods they can't produce. That is theft. |
This is exactly what I was about to write. If a company cannot deliver goods in a timely manner, however legitimate the reason may be, they should not be accepting payments.
I hope that whoever keeps their books is recording the deposits as liabilities, not as sales on the date of their receipt. As an accountant, I've seen too many companies operating on a cash basis and not accruing liabilities correctly, ultimately reaching the stage where all future work has already been paid for, and no future cash generated.  |
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Les Urban
From:
Crystal Lake Illinois, USA
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Posted 6 Apr 2014 9:40 pm
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| Yes they were in the old building when I went there (I got a really nice tour). Last Spring, their entire phone and computer system went down, and callers got a message that the number was no longer in service. They did return with a new phone number and email address. Could they have moved out of the building at that time? That could make them a little harder to find if one were to go to Burlington. As far as dealers and/or builders are concerned, 2 people who know some of them have gone to bat for me (Thanks again for trying), but were unable to find any help there. |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 7 Apr 2014 12:36 am
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just a point of knowledge, a quality machine shop can turn around enough parts for 50 guitars in a short an amount of time., such as 30 to 60 days, not 16 months, or they would be out of business too...
I read above where someone would forfeit a $500 deposit if they didn't send the balance to "continue" the build... what does that mean, send me the rest of the money to "continue" the build ?
If a Steel guitar builder/manufacturer can only build say 4 guitars a year , thats around $20,000 of gross product, not including parts and materials...How does one even maintain a business and general life on less than $20,000 / year ?
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 7 Apr 2014 5:45 am
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| Tony Prior wrote: |
| ...If a Steel guitar builder/manufacturer can only build say 4 guitars a year , thats around $20,000 of gross product, not including parts and materials...How does one even maintain a business and general life on less than $20,000 / year ? |
That's what makes luthiery in all its forms a very difficult way to make a living. When I moved to California, 34 yrs. ago, I decided to give up my 15 yr. career in accounting and just build instruments. What I found is that no-one will buy your instruments unless you already have a name, and you have to starve while building up that reputation. So I drifted back into accounting for another 32 yrs. When you see artists paying $30,000 for a guitar you imagine that the builder must be wealthy, but he has to use the finest materials and rent a workshop. Most luthiers only put out four or five instruments a year, and make up the remaining time doing unremunative repairs. There's not much left to live on. I know, because as one of the organisers of the Northern California Association of Luthiers I've met most of the string instrument builders in the west. Their reputations are made by building expensive instruments for professional musicians, or scraping together nickels and dimes by refretting guitars, adjusting nuts, repairing broken necks, etc., and very few of them are wealthy.  |
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Sid Hudson
From:
Virginia, USA
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Posted 7 Apr 2014 6:45 am Re: The Emmons Guitar Company
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| Les Urban wrote: |
Can anyone tell me what's going on at Emmons Guitars?
I ordered a LLGIII in 2012, with a 10% deposit. In November 2012, I received a phone call and an invoice for the balance, with an estimated shipping date of 12/13/2012, and I sent them a check, paying in full. As of now, I still have not received the guitar. I spoke with Ron Lashley last December, and he told me that it was finished, except for the pedal rack and setup. Since then I have not been able to make contact, as they don't answer the phone and have not returned any of my messages (phone or email). Is there still hope for this guitar, or am I out of luck here? |
I would own a building and all of it's contents in Burlington NC long before now.
Lack of money, falling on hard times, health problems, poor business practices etc, etc... you fill in the blank if you want to cut em some slack.
None of the above are justifiable reasons for taking someone's money under false pretenses. In fact it's criminal. |
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Gary Preston
From:
Columbus, Ohio, USA
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Posted 7 Apr 2014 1:50 pm
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  I know for a fact you can build a SD 10 steel guitar with Five knee levers in one day ! I saw it done and played it after it was done . Mr Ron Lashley did it ! That is if you have all the parts laying on your work table . I only wish all the best for these folks . In my opinion the Emmons steel guitar is one of the best among others steel guitar you can buy . They don't have to take a back seat to any other steel guitar . I see and hear lots of other brands and i am not speaking out of place hear . I have a LeGrande 111 i bought new and know how they are built . I can understand how you feel about delivery of your guitar but hopefully it will get resolved soon . I hope Ron , and Becca can get things in order soon . Best regards , G.P. |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 7 Apr 2014 2:44 pm
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| I hope Ron , and Becca can get things in order soon . |
How many years now have we been hearing people say this? I'm sorry, but I don't think they have what it takes to salvage the company. I agree with whoever said someone should buy the company. Like I said earlier, it would be a shame to lose another brand.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, NV400, NV112 . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Jerome Hawkes
From:
Fayetteville, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 7 Apr 2014 3:01 pm
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i've seen this kind of thing happen a lot with children that inherit an established family business. usually the founder was the one with the vision, drive and determination to make it work. its very rare that trait is passed on.
Ron CAN build a fabulous steel though - no doubt.
_________________
'65 Sho-Bud D-10 Permanent • '54 Fender Dual-8 • Clinesmith T-8 • '38 Ric Bakelite • '92 Emmons D-10 Legrande II |
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Gary Preston
From:
Columbus, Ohio, USA
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Posted 7 Apr 2014 6:25 pm
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| There is one thing i know for sure ....You can't buy a company if it isn't up for sale ... Truth ....As i said i do understand the feelings of those that haven't gotten their guitars ,, and i wish i had the answer to that but i don't . I will say this though ,, If they were interested in doing this they could take on a partner that has lots of money to invest and be part of the company . Someone to oversee the production and finances . Lets face it without money to buy material etc . you cannot operate in a timely manner . You will always hear people say ..i wish them the best and hope they get it together . |
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Ben Elder
From:
La Crescenta, California, USA
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Posted 7 Apr 2014 9:24 pm A little dose of reality
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Paging Marcus Lemonis...
http://www.cnbc.com/id/100788798
(Except I don't think he'd make an offer.)
_________________
"Gopher, Everett?" |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 8 Apr 2014 9:53 am
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| Jerome Hawkes wrote: |
| I've seen this kind of thing happen a lot with children that inherit an established family business. usually the founder was the one with the vision, drive and determination to make it work. its very rare that trait is passed on... |
You're absolutely right. I worked for a company exactly like that.  |
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Herb Steiner
From:
Spicewood TX 78669
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Posted 8 Apr 2014 10:29 am
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| Gary Preston wrote: |
| There is one thing i know for sure ....You can't buy a company if it isn't up for sale . |
Everything is up for sale, even if the owners don't realize it until they get an offer too good to pass up.
I've seen situations... and I'm not saying that the Emmons Co. is in this condition because I frankly don't know what's up with them... in which monies collected as deposits on future deliveries are used to buy backordered parts, pay the utilities, rent, and to complete previously ordered widgets. The deposit monies collected don't go into little jelly jars with "Herb's widget" on the label. The money goes into the general fund and is listed as a debit on the company's books.
When a company has to pay off back debts to vendors just to get parts to build widgets long ago fully paid for, a vicious circle of conflicting liabilities to both vendors and customers can lead to a Ponzi-like situation in which new order monies are used to pay off older orders. Public reaction to learning of the older unfulfilled orders creates a drop in demand as future customers are now gun-shy about ordering. So company income/cash flow drops to the point where no parts can be obtained and widgets can't be built. What orders do come in are used to play catch-up just to keep the doors open and the lights on, and the cycle of debt gets even deeper. Eventually the company is either taken over by its creditors, or it declares bankruptcy and the courts decide the order of payback to the various creditors. Which means that generally "Herb's widget" is on the hind teat of those creditors, as those owed lots more dough get paid first, and there's nothing left for the little guys.
This is not peculiar to the steel guitar industry, although I've seen it happen in the past. The more a company relies on outside vendors, or can't control its costs in other ways, the more precarious is the situation the company can find itself in.
_________________
My rig: Infinity and Telonics.
Son, we live in a world with walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with steel guitars. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? |
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Jack Hanson
From:
San Luis Valley, USA
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Posted 8 Apr 2014 10:59 am
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| Alan Brookes wrote: |
| Jerome Hawkes wrote: |
| I've seen this kind of thing happen a lot with children that inherit an established family business. usually the founder was the one with the vision, drive and determination to make it work. its very rare that trait is passed on... |
You're absolutely right. I worked for a company exactly like that. |
Yup. Me too. It wasn't pretty. |
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Jack Hanson
From:
San Luis Valley, USA
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Posted 8 Apr 2014 11:10 am
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| Per Berner wrote: |
| Someone please buy the company (can't be that expensive the way things are going) before it's too late! |
A gentleman in California once told me he was interested in purchasing the Emmons Company, but apparently its owner has no wish to sell.
I would agree that if its apparent situation does not drastically improve, it may already be too late.
So sad... |
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Gary Preston
From:
Columbus, Ohio, USA
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Posted 8 Apr 2014 11:20 am
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I think everyone knows that if you don't have money
it's hard to buy parts and etc . and pay your bills you may have like for your home , car , medical ..Etc . How would know if the Emmons Company or any other company would be up for sale if you didn't see it advertised somewhere . Until this happens i will still say as far as i know it isn't for sale ! Do you just walk in the business and say hey folks i want to buy you out and here is the money ??? I don't think so . So i can't assume this as others may do . Maybe you are talking in general and maybe you are right , who knows ? I think this is getting off topic myself ! |
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