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Topic: 80% tone is the cone |
Paul DiMaggio
From:
Fort Nelson, British Columbia, Canada
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Posted 10 Mar 2014 10:38 am |
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| I was reading a beginners guide to the world of resonators and one thing that was written was that the cone contributes to 80% of the tone. Is that true? |
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Noah Miller
From:
Rocky Hill, CT
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Posted 10 Mar 2014 10:46 am
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Coming from a moderately experienced but not expert round-neck reso player:
When it comes to National-style resonators, I agree. If you put a new National cone in a Regal or other affordable resonator, it will sound darn close to a National. That other 20% comes mainly from body materials (brass vs steel vs German silver).
Spider-bridge guitars are a different story, though. I've was lucky enough to catch Paul Beard at the annual Woodstock Luthier's Showcase a couple of times, and I was able to compare several of his models back to back. His various roundneck models - the R, RF, Odyssey and E - have different internal construction, and they sound quite different from each other. I've also heard cheap Dobros with upgraded cones, and they didn't hold a candle to the Beards or a National D. |
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Andy Volk
From:
Boston, MA
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Posted 10 Mar 2014 11:22 am
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| Quote: |
| the cone contributes to 80% of the tone |
I would say no. Tone is a symbiotic combination of the cone, the quality of the construction build, whether it's a sound well design or tone post interior, the type of back, sides and top woods or laminates, whether the cone is properly seated 360 degrees around to the body, the type of strings and lastly, the most import factor: the individual player's tone and attack. You can improve your tone with an upgraded cone but 80% seems way high - at least in my opinion.
_________________
Steel Guitar Books! Website: www.volkmediabooks.com |
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Ray Montee
From:
Portland, Oregon (deceased)
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Posted 10 Mar 2014 8:59 pm Some here on the SGF will disagree
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Some folks here on the SGF are confirmed believers that 100% (99%) of tone is in the hands.
Hummmmmmmm........... |
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John Dahms
From:
Perkasie, Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted 11 Mar 2014 4:47 am
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My 2 cents:
There is no doubt that the spun aluminum cones that National Res. makes can greatly improve the available range and depth (I have seen this myself), the magic is in the player and is transferred through the machine.
A great player can get everything there is out of any instrument. How much there is in there is a separate issue (this pertains to both the player and the instrument). A great human on a great machine beats everything.
_________________
Time flies like an eagle
Fruit flies like a banana. |
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Paul DiMaggio
From:
Fort Nelson, British Columbia, Canada
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Posted 11 Mar 2014 6:19 am
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| I think the gentleman that wrote the article might have been referring to the natural tone of the instrument. I understand that if Ray were to play any of my steels the tone he'd have would be far superior to what I would produce, but if we were to both just drag a pick across the strings the tone would be similar. 80% seemed high to me! but at the same time, got me thinking about getting a cheaper resonator and upgrade the components at a later date. |
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Edward Meisse
From:
Santa Rosa, California, USA
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Posted 11 Mar 2014 9:18 am Re: Some here on the SGF will disagree
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| Ray Montee wrote: |
Some folks here on the SGF are confirmed believers that 100% (99%) of tone is in the hands.
Hummmmmmmm........... |
Well there is a famous story about Jerry Byrd in that respect. But it has to do with electric instruments. At some kind of steel guitar show, Jerry was playing whatever guitar was handed to him. A forum member whose name I can't recall handed Jerry what he thought was a junk guitar that he described as having terrible tone. A guitar that he was trying to sell at a low price. The forum member reported that it sounded exquisite in Jerry hands. Immediately upon hearing it, an acquaintance of his asked how much he wanted for the guitar. The forum member reportedly replied, "It's not for sale." I'm not sure how much the tone in the hands thing crossed over to acoustic instruments. But there is some crossover. Recordings I have heard of Byrd on resonator guitars (both metal tricone and wooden single cone models) have very different tone than recordings of other players on similar instruments.
_________________
Amor vincit omnia |
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Ray Montee
From:
Portland, Oregon (deceased)
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Posted 11 Mar 2014 9:21 am Scotty simply changed his mind.............
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It was a Panda Ric...........post war model with white panels.
A guy has the right to change his mind; women do it all of the time. |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 11 Mar 2014 9:27 am
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Is the tone in the cone? It depends: if the tone is great, it's in my hands; if it's crap it's in the cone. 
I always thought I got a great tone from my resonators. I used heavy strings and I played hard with heavy picks. If a cone was bad, though, not much you could do to make it sound good.
_________________
http://www.steelinstruction.com/
http://mikeneer.com |
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Ray Montee
From:
Portland, Oregon (deceased)
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Posted 11 Mar 2014 9:31 am Wonderful response.............
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| Mike stated it quite clearly in his opening sentence. |
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Paul DiMaggio
From:
Fort Nelson, British Columbia, Canada
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Posted 11 Mar 2014 10:12 am
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| Good one Mike I'm gonna use that line when what little tone I have goes further down the drain than normal. Blame it on those junkyard pickups I have. |
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Edward Meisse
From:
Santa Rosa, California, USA
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Posted 11 Mar 2014 1:29 pm Re: Scotty simply changed his mind.............
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| Ray Montee wrote: |
It was a Panda Ric...........post war model with white panels.
A guy has the right to change his mind; women do it all of the time. |
Smile when you say that, Ray. 
_________________
Amor vincit omnia |
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Andy Volk
From:
Boston, MA
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Rob Anderlik
From:
Chicago, IL
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Posted 11 Mar 2014 1:59 pm
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Love your answer Mike!
I think the question is best approached from a systems perspective. The cone, while important, is only one part of the equation that produces the distinctive tone of a resonator guitar. I am willing to bet that there would be huge differences in tone using the same cone in an OMI dobro and a high end reso - say a Scheerhorn or Meredith resonator guitar. In (very) rough terms you can think of the cone as the speaker and the guitar body as the speaker cabinet. One the one hand you wouldn't want to put a cheap stamped cone in a high end guitar, conversely, a high quality cone will not transform a cheap guitar into a great sounding axe either. You really have to take into account the design of the builder, their attention to detail/craftsmanship in building the instrument and their skill in doing the final set up. |
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Andy Alford
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Posted 11 Mar 2014 8:32 pm Math
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| I sure know that the cones have come along way since 76. When you start percents then I just know, I do not know. Like many placing a modern USA spun cone on a reso. of choice can make that guitar come to life. Maybe the answer it is the total package that makes the guitar sound good. |
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Sebastian Müller
From:
Berlin / Germany
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Posted 12 Mar 2014 11:30 am
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Speaking about Tricones:
The cones are quite important 80% is a lot though.
The material used plays a role (for example brass vs German silver), and,
last but not least the setup, the angle of the strings between tailpiece and bridge, etc. |
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Andy Alford
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Posted 22 Apr 2015 12:55 pm Thoughts
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Does anyone have insights that we may learn from?  |
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Steve Branscom
From:
Pacific NW
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Posted 22 Apr 2015 2:09 pm
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A few years ago I bought a Danville dobro off of ebay. I decided to upgrade it along the way. In the end I replaced just about everything on the guitar with new tuners, bone nut, ebony capped inserts, Allen tailpiece, #14 spider, D'addario strings and a Beard cone. In the end I spent as much as a used Paul Beard Signature Gold Tone squareneck but it never came close to sounding like one. The cone could not overcome the lousy construction of the basic box. The cabinet could not take advantage of the power and tone of the Beard cone so it floundered and I learned a valuable lesson. Silk purses and sow's ears don't you know.
_________________
Steve |
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Robert Allen
From:
Tennessee, USA
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Posted 22 Apr 2015 2:19 pm
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| I have a stamped cone in my old Dobro and I wouldn't trade it for a dozen spun cones, but I suppose it's all subjective and depends on the sound someone is seeking. I like the old time 30's - 40's sound and you can't get this sound out of a modern state of the art reso. Most people today are thankful they can't get the old time sound. |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 2 May 2015 7:55 pm
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| maybe the guy meant that compared to an acoustic guitar, a dobro's sound mostly emanates from the cone chamber as opposed to the wood used and the acoustic design of a regular guitar. |
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