Teacher, Training Videos or Self-Taught. How Far Did You Get

Jon Miller · From: N.FT.Myers,Fl,USA

I was just curious as to how many of you folks out there who actually play for a living professionally or just play with a band for the fun of it got to where you are today. Did you take lessons from a teacher or did you learn strictly by teaching videos or are you self taught? I have yet to meet anyone who got there start from buying Jeff Newman teaching material and made it into the Bandstand environment. I confess that I have bought several of Jeff's videos and learned quite a bit, but only after realizing that I would never find a teacher to help me in these parts. Frustratingly curious. Thanks!

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[This message was edited by Jon Miller on 16 June 2002 at 04:04 AM.]

Damir Besic · From: Nashville,TN.

While back home in Europe I had a friend who gived me a complete Jeff Newman course.I never touched it.Another guy was working on it and even got some kind of letter from Jeff,some kind of graduation papers or something.The fact is,he played in his room with a tapes and never made it to the band.I bought a Winnie Winston book and learned basics,never did get through the whole book either but have made it to the band.And that was it.The best school is playing live with the band.I played,and I use gig`s to learn new things.I had travel around whole Europe with bands,playing in Germany,Italy,Luxemburg,Austria etc...and probably around 80% USA,from Tampa,FL. to Yuma,AZ and San Diego,CA. to Virginia Beach,VA,not mention north states where I spent over a year playing in the road bands.I have never stated or had an opinion about myself as a great player.I was just good enough for the job.I did my part.But everything I learned,I learned on the stage,and I think that is the best way to do it.But then again,what do I know

Damir

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http://hometown.aol.com/damirzanne/damirzanne1.html

[This message was edited by Damir Besic on 16 June 2002 at 07:44 AM.]

Matt Steindl · From: New Orleans, LA, USA

I agree, that the experience of diving into a good jam session with other musicians, will do more for your playing than any video or book. I still have a long way to go, but jamming w/ others has been invaluable.

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Mattman in "The Big Sleazy"-:
S-10 Dekley, Suitcase Fender Rhodes, B-bender Les Paul

Ricky Davis · From: Bertram, Texas USA

I play steel guitar for a living; and have been since '88.
I've had many teachers; in fact, ever steel player I've listened to is my teacher.
I always try to get one to show me this and that; but the best teacher is my ears and hard work.......you can do it; you can find how to make that sound.....be patient and enjoy every mogal and milestone.
Ricky

Tom Campbell · From: Houston, Texas, USA

A lot depends upon one's musical background. If you've played someother instrument in bands, then a tape like Jeff Newmans will be a great help introducing you to the steel. To advance, jamm'in and gigs are the fertile fields of learning...no other way...period MHO! Four hours on the bandstand is worth two weeks of home practice...the stress factor involved, by playing in public, is the "Mother-of-Invention".

Jon Miller · From: N.FT.Myers,Fl,USA

Well, thats all great and good. But, I can't tell you how many times I have advertised in local papers and on bullitin boards in music stores, churches and by word of mouth and to no avail. Out of the seven years I've "owned" (played) steel, there just isn't much of a call for steel in these parts. I play in a Praise band at my church which I rotate from Bass to Drums to rythm guitar on a monthly basis, but only a few times have I played out in a bandstand environment. I would love to get to those "fertile fields" you speak of. Just ain't happenin'.

[This message was edited by Jon Miller on 16 June 2002 at 12:15 PM.]

Jeff Watson · From: Anza, CA. USA

Never had a teacher (though that would have been great) and I predate videos. I had Winnie Winstons book (thank you very much Winnie) and my stereo was my band. Any of the basic teaching materials will provide you with the building blocks to PLAY ALONG with recorded music. First I learned how to play a simple chord to match each chord change in a single song. I would play the same song over & over & over (when your teaching yourself you tend to work on music that inspires you).....until I learned to play those simple chord changes in all of the different string/fret position combinations available. In the course of doing this I would start to hear certain string groups or positions that matched up with what the player on the recording had done and I would start to explore that. I got a tape player that allowed me to slow recordings to half speed so I could try to pick out and play along with more difficult parts. After a few years of this (HA!) I got to where I could play along with most recordings and could duplicate the steel parts. At this point I thought I was a steel player. Sitting in with others showed me otherwise. I spent another 10 years working on my chops before playing with others again. Though I had improved, I realized I still had to go through the embarrasment (no more like humiliation) of allowing other musicians to witness my feeble attempts at actually CREATING music (even if it is from other peoples bits and pieces). It is your nakedness in a live playing situation that shows you what you have to learn to cover yourself. Starting to play with others is a quantum leap where you truly begin to grow as a musician. It is excruciatingly painful in many ways but you learn in that fire things that can't be known any other way. Learn to PLAY ALONG with recorded music(simple 3 chord stuff) at a very elemental, chord changing level. Then find other musicians who you can play with. They will be forgiving, non of them could even imagine attempting to play the contraption your sitting behind. When I first began I never dreamed I'd end up playing with others much less making music I'd be proud of. Now I'm living a dream.

[This message was edited by Jeff Watson on 16 June 2002 at 05:36 PM.]

Damir Besic · From: Nashville,TN.

Like Ricky said,I also tried to steal as much as I can from every player I see.I never tought of myself as any better then anyone else and try to learn from everyone.Sometimes a new player will have a totaly different aproach to something then experienced player wich can be very interesting.As far as finding a band to play live goes,it`s hard to get into a good band with a good jobs and we all know that,but you can try some of the musician referral websites,that may help.Network,network,network, are magic words.Sometimes I have to travel all the way to Indianapolis or Tulsa,Oklahoma for a good gig on weekend.
Damir

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http://hometown.aol.com/damirzanne/damirzanne1.html

[This message was edited by Damir Besic on 16 June 2002 at 12:55 PM.]

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

Pretty much self taught. At the time there were really only two other Pedal Steel players in my area that I knew about ad we really were not in the same circle. A friend from NYC came to my house and showed me some things once or twice and I also went to a Jeff Newman seminar in NY. There were no video's back then. A teacher would have been great. Come to think of it, a teacher wouldn't be that bad of a thing now !

tp
TPrior/SteelGuitarHomesite

Steven Welborn · From: Ojai,CA USA

I completely sympathize. The heyday and heyplace for learning steelers these days are heygone imho. I dont care. I enjoy playing in church. I would also love to be playing in a band doing honkytonk shuffles, tearjerk ballads and western swing. I'll continue woodsheding and jamming,recording when possible. Who knows what or when something might come along. Yuo gotta admit, the woodsheding tools these days light years ahead of yesteryear. Hang in there...

Matt Steindl · From: New Orleans, LA, USA

Jon, sounds like you have made a good effort to get people to jam with. But if you want to make it happen, you need to be a leader and start from scratch. Are any of the members of your church group interested in jamming? Ask em. You might want to make a certain type of music, while others like a different style. What does it hurt to hook up for a few hours to see how the sounds combine. Dont give up on finding others to play with, as there are so many awesome cats out there wout bands and gigs. Give em a call. Playnig well w/ others is soooooo valuable!!!!!!!!

Good luck!!!

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Mattman in "The Big Sleazy"-:
S-10 Dekley, Suitcase Fender Rhodes, B-bender Les Paul

Joerg Hennig · From: Bavaria, Germany

All in all, I went through three instructional books, the first being Winnie Winston´s at the very beginning (I actually studied it all, but I doubt I really understood everything right away; I recall a post of Winnie´s where he said that it will look a lot different if you take it up again after a few years of playing, and that´s what I want to do someday, I have a feeling like I might realize some things I didn´t get the first time.) The second was John Bidasio´s E9th Workbook, which is quite different in approach since it deals mostly with scale positions. I want to go through that one again someday, too. The third - after I got a double neck - was Buddy Emmons´Basic C6. I think those provided me with the basic knowledge to be able to figure out things from records, and that´s where most of my learning actually comes from. I already had the "knack" to it since I had been learning that way on standard guitar for many years, so it just was the most natural thing to do. The hardest part in the beginning was technique, especially the right hand. I was fortunate to get to know a real hot local picker and hung out with him for a while and he taught me some fundamental things about blocking. Palm blocking, that is. He never even mentioned pick blocking, but really stressed proper palm blocking technique and I began to work really hard at it and that was a big influence on my way of playing. I think I knew pretty early what I wanted to sound like. I´m not completely there yet, but it´s getting better. Now that I have a guitar and amp that I know will do it for me, I work on my tone more than anything else. What´s more, I am currently in the process of learning on the bandstand. My first live playing experience (with a different band) was a failure and put me in a crisis for a couple of weeks, but I got over it and tried again and the next time it worked out much better, even though it was over all too soon for other reasons... and now it looks like I´ve finally found a band where I fit in well and they like what I´m doing; they want me to play like ME. They are actually glad when I make up my own steel parts instead of copying everything from the records. Maybe that´s one of the advantages of living in Europe...
I think you can learn as much as you want from any kind of instructional material, but the most important, the routine and confidence, you only get that when playing with other people, as often as possible. And playing out, playing gigs is the best thing yet - after all, that´s why I started in the first place.

Regards, Joe H.

Douglas Hudson · From: Galena, Kansas, USA

I attended a Jeff Newman instruction course in Dallas this year. The instruction he gave and the booklet and cd have taught me so much about the steel. ( I have lots more to learn ) It did help me to keep from getting frustrated so quickly by following his idea to scales. Also taught me dexterity with pedals and knee levers. It has made a better steel guitar player of me. In the course of practice it has trained my ears, now I can pick up a cd and figure out where and how the picker is playing. I play with a local band, ( hoping someday soon to move up and become worldwide ). I believe that course has taught me more than anything. I like to play with back up cds the last hour of my practice that way I can put together some of the licks that I have learned.

Gil Berry · From: Westminster, CA, USA

Took lessons from a real gentleman, a Mr. Russ Waters, at the Honolulu Conservatory of Music, in Flint, Michigan for a couple of years - that was (My God!) fifty years ago. I was one of about 20 or 30 kids in a group lesson, all of us playing 6-string A7, E7, and C6 tunings (you re-tuned for different songs!) My first PSG didn't come until many years later (about 1972, I think). I'm still learning, but the best "teacher" is jamming with other musicians - especially those who are BETTER THAN YOU ARE. (In my case, that's most of 'em)....

emil noothout · From: Amsterdam, Netherlands

I want to say something in favor of teaching materials. When i started i got the basics from a serie of articles from Jeff Newmann i discovered in old Guitar Players. I had a book form Scotty then, but the Newman material was for more basic, and best of all, it gave very detailed information on right-hand position and technique. I still remember the excitement i felt when i found the articles because it was exactly what i needed at that time. Later i got much from the Bruce Bouton video, i kept looking at the left hand, simply because the bar-handling looked so elegant and smooth. I really believe you can learn something from everyone and playing in a band learns you how far you really are, but to get the basics right i found teaching-materials (from authorities in the field i must add) invaluable. You have to realise that from others you can also learn bad habits.

Steel tryin · From: Macon, Ga.

I suggest anyone thats been at the steel 3 years or less and has yet to GRACE the bandstand might consider recording yourself.
This will reveal most deficiencies in technique. You will discover you are not blocking as good as you thought...so back to
the exercises. Nothing more unpleasant to
the ears than LIVE steel with bad technique.
Its not how much you can play its HOW YOU play what you know. Yes I have not GRACED the bandstand yet.

Tony Orth · From: Evansville, Indiana, USA

Jon,

I've been playing steel for a couple of years now and have moved from bass to steel in my band Hickory. I have used all the learning resource types: books, tab, videos, you name it. Nothing beats having a mentor/teacher. You can ask a question and get an immediate response, or get immediate feedback on what you are doing.....right or wrong.

Some years ago I got myself into a band by introducing myself to them one evening at one of their gigs. After some musician-talk I was able to persuade them to let me just jam with them once. I played slide guitar and some other instruments like banjo and mandolin. They loved what I did, although seemingly simple to me, and I was a member of the group immediately. Perhaps being bold, like that, would work for you. What have you got to lose? Don't give up on the first refusal either. There are other bands.

By the way, Steel tryin's advice is very good and I record myself every so often to see if I've improved or have slipped back into some old bad habits.

Best Wishes,
Tony

[This message was edited by Tony Orth on 19 June 2002 at 10:42 AM.]

Jon Miller · From: N.FT.Myers,Fl,USA

Tony, thanks for your input. I have played w/a band (gospel) on several occasions. It was my opinion that they had never played with a steel player before and didn't know where to lay out, etc. They all seemed to be "hotdogs". It has always been my mindset that steel is mostly an Intro, fills and endings instrument w/maybe a solo and turnaround thrown in the pot every now and then. Seemed as though everyone wanted to "step" on the each other. I have had enough experience to know that you don't play music, especially gospel music, w/the entent of being up front and heard. I've always been taught to compliment the singer and make him/her sound good. Not with just the steel, but w/all the other instruments I've been blessed to play. My problem is that I have used many teaching videos and been to siminars put on by the pros but as most of you forumites have said, playing in the bandstand invironment is the best way to learn. It just ain't happenin here, folks! Guess I'm just stuck.

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[This message was edited by Jon Miller on 19 June 2002 at 01:48 PM.]

Sam White · From: Coventry, RI 02816

How can I get a hold of a Winnie Winston learning book on the basics.I never played a Instrument in my life until I decided to play the Steel and I have been 5 years and I'm not Quite there yet. I took about 6 to 8 Lessons and I moved so I can't get lessons from Tony any more.I do use some tab but not Newmans or Wallace's as I can't play theres I have Quite a bit of both.I can play some of Chuck Letts and Doug Beaumier's they make it good and plain.
Sam White

Jim Smith · From: Midlothian, TX, USA

eBay almost always has a few copies of Winnie Winston's book up for auction.

Hal Higgins · From: Denham Springs, LA

I've been playing the steel guitar for 32+ years, and the way I started out was (1) I had a deep desire to learn this instrument from a man whom I suppose I could call my mentor, in fact a man who Jim Smith knows really well, Milo T. Jellison. I was just a teenage kid in Maine and played accoustic rhythm on Sat. nites in N. Bradford, Me at a dance hall.....I loved the sound of the steel that Milo played and wished that I could have one to learn on......it wasn't until about 4 or 5 years later that I got my first steel (a fender 400) Re-modified the guitar added 2 KL's to it and tuned it to a D9th. Dropped the D & B (our 9 & 10 strings) and added the chromatic strings (1 & 2). I took every record that I could find and sat with them for hours on end listening and tryin to duplicate the sounds that I was hearing from Tom Brumley, LLoyd Green, Buddy Emmons, etc. and finally I put that guitar on the stage in Bolton, CT with Lucky Look and started my steel guitar career....I listened and learned from a lot of local players, but never actually had a formal lesson from anyone. Putting it on the bandstand and learning from my own mistakes taught me so much, and lessons that are forever etched in my mind. If I could, still today, I would do nothing but continue to learn more on this wonderful instrument.....I know I'm not the caliber player like some that I've mentioned in this post, but I think I can hold my own. Just keep trying, and remember this.....practice and being patient with yourself is going to be the key to your success as an accomplished steel guitarist. HAL HIGGINS

Dr. Hugh Jeffreys · From: Southaven, MS, USA

To: Jon Miller - First, you must determine where you want to go with your steel; choose a direction. As a child I studied in a conservatory in Vallejo, Ca. Later I earned a university degree: Master of Science in Jazz Composition. I left "country" (hillbilly) steel when I was 15 and have since been into modern progressive jazz. I find it very rewarding--and NEVER does it get boring or in the DOLDRUMS. It is very dynamic music. In the early '80's, I wrote a book on my five-finger method, spent a few grand advertising it for correspondence courses, gave up and broke about even 2 years later. The people who bought it could not find time to give it justice. My Biography and CD Sampler can be found at www.steelguitarbyhughjeffreys.com -- good luck---HJ

Doug Childress · From: Orange, Texas

I for one believe that Jeff Newman is a great teacher. I don't think however that I would have progressed as quickly with my playing if I had not gotten individual personal training from Jeff. The written material shows things to do, but the secret is putting it all together and practice, practice, practice. Jeff has a way of making things simple and fun. If you ever get the chance to got to his TOP GUN school, do not miss the opportunity. The same pressure of working with a band is there when you're trying to complete an exercise and Jeff is sitting in front of you watching.

Earl Yarbro · From: Bowie, Texas, USA

I've had 5 or 6 lessons, but the majority
of my learning has come from John Hughey's cd's, listening and playing to the rythm CD's. Use some Jeff Newman's also. Tom Brumley's CD's are great. His Hank Williams medley is a really good learning experience. I still haven't made it to Nashville yet, maybe next year.

Jon Miller · From: N.FT.Myers,Fl,USA

I guess that might be half of my problem. I don't feel much of a need to practice because I see no need to...there isn't anyone to play along with. And no telling how many bad habits I've picked up learning on my own. I have had some Newman seminars (Lakeland, Fl) and a Wallce/Hughy seminars (Plant City, Fl) and a few of Newmans teaching tapes. But unless you have a mentor or someone who can critique your progress or degress, I feel that time is wasted in being just a bedroom player. Yes, I have a few of the play-along tapes and they have certainly helped. Dr. Hugh, as far as knowing where I want to go w/the steel...I feel if I could just get into the bandstand invironment like most of you have done and say help the most, I feel I would at least be moving in a forward direction w/the steel.

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