Knee Lever Names

Jeff Metz Jr. · From: York, Pennsylvania, USA

I know there are a bunch of people ( along with myself) that get confused with this, so I would like someone to clarify. With pedal steel pedals you have typically A,B,and C pedals. If you have more than 3 pedals do they go in order? Also with knee levers I often see them being referred to as "F" lever ,"E" lever. etc. I know them as LKL,LKR,RKL,RKR. What are they referring to with F lever and E lever?
THanks
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Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

Only the F and X levers (Â½ step raise of Es and Â½ step lowers of Bs, respectively) have anything approaching universal meaning.
The E and D levers mean either lowering the Es or lowering 2 (and often, but not always, 9). But which is which isn't standardized. Just when I think it means one, somebody talks about the other.
The G lever used to mean Â½step raise of 1, paired with either Â½ step raise of 7 or whole step lower of 6. But some folks call the whole step 1/Â½step raise of 2 a G lever.

Fortunately, it only makes for confusion in discussions, as tab would become self-evident by string allocation.

In short:
F= Es to E# (go ahead, call it F: the third of a C# chord is E#)
X= Bs to A#
D, E, G and any others = situationally variable.

Remember that calling them by position doesn't help much either. They're not in the same places on every guitar.
As for extra pedals, they don't get letters. There's the Franklin Pedal, which drops 5,6 & 10 a whole step. Beyond that, we kinda have to call 'em by what they do.
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John Scanlon · From: Jackson, Mississippi, USA

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

Deleted
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Tony Glassman · From: The Great Northwest

Never heard of an "X" lever in 40+ years of steel playing. There is no universally accepted nomenclature for knee levers. I use:

"F" lever = E->F
"E's down lever" = E->Eb
"B's down lever" = B->Bb
"D lever"= 2nd string to D (+/-C#) and 9th string D->C#

The rest are all described more fully by their function.

This would be a great SGF project. Members could devise a universal abbreviation knee lever naming convention that we would all use, via discussion and final vote.

Dan Beller-McKenna · From: Durham, New Hampshire, USA

The problem with naming the levers D-G (or H) is that then some people expect them to be located straight across from left to right (i.e., D=LKL, E=LKR, etc.), which, of course is not the case and not standardized anyway.

I think of them the way Tony has them listed. We're an army of 2.

Very Happy

Dale Hansen · From: Hendersonville,Tennessee, (USA)

I agree with Lane, for the most part, here.
"E" lever lowers the E's - the "F" lever raises the E's to F, (...regardless of where they're located. > LKL, LKR..) The "D" lever, generally refers to the 2nd string lower/lower. (Often tabbed as D-L, & D-LL)
My only point of contention is that I've never even heard of an "X' lever, before this very day. Most of us 'oldtimers' probably refer to that one as the "V" lever (vertical), or as the "Bb" lever, as that is the most common use for that particular lever.
In fairly recent developments, there has also been a "Z" lever designated, by Bobbe Seymour,...But,I have no idea what it's function is...

(*10:35 A.M. -I must be getting slower in my old age... Four posts popped up as I was replying to this, > which may lead to a false impression that I have a careless disregard for other folks opinions. Not so...)
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Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

OK, I amend my earlier statement.
Only the F lever approaches universality.
I'd thought about naming the F#-G#/D#-E lever "Bob" (not B0b), but then I spoiled that by putting it on a pedal.
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Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

John Scanlon · From: Jackson, Mississippi, USA

I'm mostly with Richard on this. While Lane is right on the money about the C# example, who says that every time we engage the lever we're making a major third in the key of C#? No need to get into enharmonic designations.

However, I disagree with Richard that F is the aug. fifth of an A+ chord - in that context, it is an E#. But it's all context.

I mean, in a B-flat dim. chord, the open 7th and 4th strings are technically F-flat. Do you say you play an Fb9 tuning???
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Brint Hannay · From: Maryland, USA

The designation "X lever" for the lever lowering the B's to Bb/A# (choose your preferred name) was originated by Jeff Newman.

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

Mark van Allen · From: Watkinsville, Ga. USA

This is a confusing thing for students especially, and I suppose for those who like order out of chaos.
I had always thought the levers were lettered kind of as they were introduced into the tuning... we had pedals A, B, C, here comes a lever, let's call that "D"...
I think Jeff Newman kind of arbitrarily lettered the levers for use in his courses and teaching, and so many folks took his seminars or bought courses that it became almost convention.
Some tab courses, like Doug Jernigan's, are labeled underneath with RKL, LKR, and so on, but as some of his levers are somewhat unconventional another user might have to continually refer to the labeling key or even make changes in the tab to accommodate their own setup. While most pros can translate on the fly (as with Day to Emmons notation) this seems to be a sticking point for beginners.
With my own students I've most often found them expecting the "E", "F" and so on to relate to notes on the guitar, and since the E lever affects the E strings, and the F lever makes an F note... but the others... confusing...

Frankly, with the adjustability of modern guitars and the inherent experimental proclivity of players, I think we'll never see a completely standardized knee lever setup, making it difficult to set a standard for labeling. With my own students, I refer to the floor pedals as A, B, C (helps to separate the floor from knee functions) and levers as "Raise 4 & 8" , "Lower 2 and 9", and so on, wring them in Tab as R, L, LL for a whole step lower.

Jimmy Crawford's Musymtab was the best system I've seen for tab notation, but I've found the sharps and flats scare the hell out of many students. The most important thing is to know what string(s) your lever operates on, and what it's musical function is, so (for tab) a R, L, or LL written on the string affected seems to make the most sense.
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Michael Strauss · From: Delray Beach,Florida

Hard to believe anyone actually learns to play a psg with the lack of standards, but somehow we do. Smile

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Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

As long as you know what the pedal/lever does, it isn't hard to figure out what you should be activating when looking at tab.
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b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

"LKL" refers to the left knee lever that moves left. "F" refers to the lever that raises both E strings to F (or E# Razz

). Often, but not always, they mean the same thing.

"P1" refers to the first pedal. "A" refers to the pedal that raises both B strings to C#. Often, but not always, they mean the same thing.

To avoid ambiguity, tab should use the single letter names. As for "D" vs. "E" (the old name vs. the new), the meaning is always obvious from what string is being moved.
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Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

I think they should be labeled more like this:
E>F Lever (as in, "Some players have their "E to F Lever" [E>F] on "Right Knee Left" [RKL].

So the basic Lever functions are:
E>F lever
E>Eb Lever
B>Bb Lever
D#>D Lever

I would agree that we could just call them what they they do when enguaged.
F Lever
Eb Lever
Bb Lever
D Lever

Isn't the lever that raises the high F# and D# to G# and E respectively associated with some famous players name? I can't remember because I don't have that change.

Of course the word Lever is actually to be pronounced "LEE-ver", right?
Embarassed

I also have a G Lever [G#>G] on [RKL2].

Mike Heugel · From: Taylor, Michigan, USA

I've adopted a version of Joe Wrights naming convention as a beginner to keep me reminded of the function.

48+, or forty eight positive, or forty eight up
48-, or forty eight negative, or forty eight down
29-, or twenty nine negative, or twenty nine down.
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Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

What would you call 1st F#-G and 6th G#-F# 16 posinegative?
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Jim Horan · From: California, USA

Here is Mel Bay's tuning chart

Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

I think we're all looking for a 21st century solution.

Ray Anderson · From: Jenkins, Kentucky USA

I think shift levers on automobiles went through this same nomenclature hiccup.But I can't recall it stopping anyone from driving. Learn your strings and lever functions and when you look at the tab it should be obvious. That's how I approached it. Noobs have to put a little work and study into it first, you can't expect everything to be " laid out" , I didn't and doing well I might add. JMHO Cool

Dickie Whitley · Posted 1 Aug 2013 5:05 pm

John Scanlon · From: Jackson, Mississippi, USA

As far as tab goes, I like Winnie's solution of putting an R (for raise) and L (for lower) on the line for the string. You know which string it is affecting, obviously, by which line it's written on, with no need for it indicating what that lever does to other strings (unless they're being played, too). Of course, my guitar had a fixed copedent, so I didn't have the whole-step or half-step issue, but you could put ++ or + and - or --.
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