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Topic: When Vintage Tech Makes Modern Music |
chas smith
From:
Encino, CA, USA
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Barry Blackwood
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Posted 7 Oct 2012 7:56 pm |
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I agree Chas. Love all that vintage stuff, the way it sounds, and the way it makes you sound …   |
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Leslie Ehrlich
From:
Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada
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Posted 7 Oct 2012 10:45 pm
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Not me. I record as a hobbyist, and there's no way I can afford the kind of gear that was used when I was growing up. A Neumann U47 mic would be about $5,000 and a 24 track reel to reel recorder about $100,000.
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Sho-Bud Pro III + Marshall JMP 2204 half stack = good grind! |
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Alvin Blaine
From:
Picture Rocks, Arizona, USA
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Posted 7 Oct 2012 11:50 pm
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| Leslie Ehrlich wrote: |
| Not me. I record as a hobbyist, and there's no way I can afford the kind of gear that was used when I was growing up. A Neumann U47 mic would be about $5,000 and a 24 track reel to reel recorder about $100,000. |
Maybe back in the '80s they were going for that, but today you can buy Sony/MCI or Otari 24 track recorders ALL DAY LONG staring in the $500-$700. They may need little work and with buying them online the shipping is going to be a big chunk of change. You can get some real nice ones for a couple of grand. Here is one that used to belong to Philip Glass, so it's a little over priced.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/OTARI-MTR90MK2-24TRACKS-2-TAPE-MACHINE-/290783554721?pt=US_Other_Pro_Audio&hash=item43b40ceca1
You can even get the top of the line Studer A-820 for under $6000, in great working condition.
Then you could get one of, forum member Dave Perlman's U47 Style mic for $1600 and your set with better analog gear than the Beatles recorded on.
Now the tape is going to be pricey, but recorders and very cheap right now.
I did a project this year in a studio that had two 24 track Otari's in each room, and they were set up with CLASP. It's hardware (and program) set up that connects 24 track analog tape with pro-tools or Cubase. So you can record on tape and mix in protools. It was kind of cool.
Here is the CLASP website:
http://www.endlessanalog.com/what-is-clasp
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http://www.oldbluesound.com/about.htm
http://www.facebook.com/cowboytwang |
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Leslie Ehrlich
From:
Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada
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Posted 8 Oct 2012 2:26 pm
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Well, I would agree that there are affordable options now, but analog tape recordings are much harder to manipulate than digital audio files and waveforms. There are things I can do with my computer  that I would require a lot of time and effort if I were working with tape.  So I have no desire to go back to the 'good ol' days'.
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Sho-Bud Pro III + Marshall JMP 2204 half stack = good grind! |
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Cliff Kane
From:
the late great golden state
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Posted 8 Oct 2012 10:30 pm
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| Alvin Blaine wrote: |
| ....you can buy Sony/MCI or Otari 24 track recorders ALL DAY LONG staring in the $500-$700. |
We used Otari MTR 90's in all of the rooms at Cherokee. Some of the best sounding records were recorded on those machines. If you want to make great sounding recordings and you can find one that you can afford, buy it. Your PC with Pro-Tools is very neat, but those machines are the real deal. If you can find an MCI board and can get it into your house, and get some nice German mics, you will be very happy. I would like to know where the Trident A Ranges at Cherokee went to when they finally gave up the ghost to SSL boards and digital machines. Anyone know? |
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Alvin Blaine
From:
Picture Rocks, Arizona, USA
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Posted 9 Oct 2012 1:11 am
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| Cliff Kane wrote: |
| Alvin Blaine wrote: |
| ....you can buy Sony/MCI or Otari 24 track recorders ALL DAY LONG staring in the $500-$700. |
We used Otari MTR 90's in all of the rooms at Cherokee. Some of the best sounding records were recorded on those machines. If you want to make great sounding recordings and you can find one that you can afford, buy it. Your PC with Pro-Tools is very neat, but those machines are the real deal. If you can find an MCI board and can get it into your house, and get some nice German mics, you will be very happy. I would like to know where the Trident A Ranges at Cherokee went to when they finally gave up the ghost to SSL boards and digital machines. Anyone know? |
The past 15 years or so about every session I've done has been digital. Then this summer I spent a week with an Otari 2 inch and Trident console. It's like night and day. Yes the Pro-Tools is much faster and easier to edit with, but the analog tape is so much fun.
One thing I've noticed with digital is that the old joke "we can fix it in the mix" has become a reality, and now the engineer and/or producer seem to be more in control of the musical content than the musicians. Everything just feels rushed, and if someone hits a clam, they just keep going and let the ProTool jockey fix it in the mix.
With the 2 inch tape it's a whole different vibe. One thing is when every knows that a reel of tape is $300 and with the price of studio time, you don't make mistakes, or let anyone say "we can fix it in the mix". Instead the band practiced together and had a nice tight groove going on before the tape was even rolling. It was such a nice relaxed feel.
Now I'm working on getting an Otari, from a friend, for a couple of grand and it comes with just about a whole other one for parts. Now if I can find a nice working Trident for under $5000. Then I'll have my dream setup.
_________________
http://www.oldbluesound.com/about.htm
http://www.facebook.com/cowboytwang |
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Leslie Ehrlich
From:
Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada
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Posted 9 Oct 2012 4:56 am
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| Alvin Blaine wrote: |
| With the 2 inch tape it's a whole different vibe. One thing is when every knows that a reel of tape is $300 and with the price of studio time, you don't make mistakes. |
That's another reason why I prefer digital. I have ADD (attention deficit disorder) and the symptoms include lousy short-term memory, clumsiness, and poor ability to follow things through in a step by step manner. So I make a lot of mistakes, and getting a recording to sound good can take a very long time.
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Sho-Bud Pro III + Marshall JMP 2204 half stack = good grind! |
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Cliff Kane
From:
the late great golden state
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Posted 9 Oct 2012 11:34 am
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Hey Alvin,
that sounds like a great setup. I know the Trident Series 80 are not too rare and sound very good. If you ever come across an A-Range you should check it out as there's not too many out there....and please let me know! I know what you mean about performing to tape. At one time 24 tracks seemed like plenty of tracks. A 48 track lock-up seemed very extravagant. Now people depend on an infinite number of tracks and virtual tracks. Some amazing sounding stuff was cut on 8 tracks, 4 tracks, and the very old school of direct to two tracks or mono or the record, mixing live with player-to-mic proximity, no over-dubbing or punching in. I have always wanted a 2" 16-track machine. BTW, if it has not been already, your MTR 90 can be moded for smoother and faster punching in-and-out. They are really great sounding and performing machines. |
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Leslie Ehrlich
From:
Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada
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Posted 9 Oct 2012 11:55 am
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| Cliff Kane wrote: |
| Now people depend on an infinite number of tracks and virtual tracks. |
I don't use a lot of tracks when I record, but I do like cutting and pasting and moving things around.
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Sho-Bud Pro III + Marshall JMP 2204 half stack = good grind! |
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Cliff Kane
From:
the late great golden state
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Posted 9 Oct 2012 12:05 pm
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| That is amazing to do computers. You can't move the time of one track relative to another track on tape. Plus you save on razor blades and splicing tape! |
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chas smith
From:
Encino, CA, USA
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Posted 9 Oct 2012 1:41 pm
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| Now people depend on an infinite number of tracks and virtual tracks. |
I had a session at RC Productions and they had a very futuristic looking digital console (I don't remember the name). I asked, how many tracks? and the answer was 400. Do they use them all and the answer was, yes, when they are mixing orchestra stuff.
For my own stuff, I try to keep it under 16 tracks. I was always tape and I still have my Auditronics 501 Son of 36 Grand console, but if I want to work, I have to be ProTools. The whole point of digital was non-linear editing and it has saved my butt many times. |
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