reese...what about this msa 14 stringer

Bill Hatcher · From: Atlanta Ga. USA

this was on ebay. i found it with just a half hour to go and could not get any questions to the seller. i would have bought it, but its the old style msa mechanics and i couldnt be sure what all had been disconnected and what was left parts wise on it. guy said that it was now only a 10 stringer with three pedals and 2 knees. what do you remember about this one reese? thanks

it sold for $1124 and $100 to ship it from canada.

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

Wow.
Just wow.
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Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

Lane, that's what YOU need. Very Happy

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Bill Hatcher · From: Atlanta Ga. USA

wonder if julian tharpe had a 14 stringer made at msa during the time that the undercarriage looked like that?

George Macdonald · From: Vancouver Island BC Canada

I briefly had a 14 string MSA back in the 60's very similar to that one. Maybe it was the same guitar. It was a nightmare to work on or get parts for it. The one I bought from a New York dealer had at one time belonged to Tom Morell. After a week of frustration, I tried to return it to the dealer. No way, until Reese gratiously intervened and got them to accept it back. After that, I went with a 74 12 string MSA with the newer mechanism and kept that guitar for 29 years. I've always been grateful for Reese stepping in and helping me out of a costly jam that I could ill afford at the time.

George Macdonald · From: Vancouver Island BC Canada

I briefly had a 14 string MSA back in the 60's very similar to that one. Maybe it was the same guitar. It was a nightmare to work on or get parts for it. The one I bought from a New York dealer had at one time belonged to Tom Morell. After a week of frustration, I tried to return it to the dealer. No way, until Reese gratiously intervened and got them to accept it back. After that, I went with a 74 12 string MSA with the newer mechanism and kept that guitar for 29 years. I've always been grateful for Reese stepping in and helping me out of a costly jam that I could ill afford at the time.

George Macdonald · From: Vancouver Island BC Canada

I briefly had a 14 string MSA back in the 60's very similar to that one. Maybe it was the same guitar. It was a nightmare to work on or get parts for it. The one I bought from a New York dealer had at one time belonged to Tom Morell. After a week of frustration, I tried to return it to the dealer. No way, until Reese gratiously intervened and got them to accept it back. After that, I went with a 74 12 string MSA with the newer mechanism and kept that guitar for 29 years. I've always been grateful for Reese stepping in and helping me out of a costly jam that I could ill afford at the time.

Jerry Hayes · From: Virginia Beach, Va.

Reese, I'd like to hear your thoughts about this guitar too.......JH in Va.
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Bill Hatcher · From: Atlanta Ga. USA

TTT maybe reese will see it.

Edwin Allen · From: Windermere, Florida, USA

hi guys - i'm a forum newbie; played an emmons student model for a few years back in the 70s (rock & country) and have again been bit by the PSG bug. won this guitar on ebay last week after some consternation (console, pedal, 10 or 12?) and decided to do a deep dive. i realize this a project but the seller assured me that all uninstalled parts are in the case except for two kluson tuners (although the undercarriage photo does remind me a little of the space shuttle except older). the guitar is currently in transit and i plan to a) reassemble it, b) figure out how to make it work (or at least make a valiant attempt) and 3) approach the tuning and copedant non-traditionally. it seems with that many strings you could literally segregate it into different tunings of 4 to 6 strings each across the neck; maybe a sixth, dom. 7th and a 9th, with ascending notes and string gauges within each chord group.
(this is starting to sound really fishy)
so let me get my hands on it, make an assessment, and start planning and experimenting for real.

and my thanks to G. Mac' on this thread for the generous consultation. - ed

Bill Hatcher · From: Atlanta Ga. USA

let me know when the intrigue is over. i'll give you half of what you paid for it! Winking

wish it had the next generation of msa mechanics. it would be worth it.

best of luck. let us know how you do with it.

Reece Anderson · From: Keller Texas USA, R.I.P.

Bill H....

I really need to see more detailed pictures and get a serial number before I can be of much help. Having said that, this is what I believe at this time based on what I see.

1. There is no way a guitar would have left the MSA factory with an off center nameplate, so that had to be added later.
2. I don't recall having built guitars of that vintage which had a metal neck.
3. While the pedal bar and decal appear to be MSA parts, the shape of the pedals makes them questionable as original MSA parts.
4. The knee levers being mounted outside on the back ledge and the polished underside IS something we done on a few MSA's when Chuck Wright was building guitars for us.
5. During that same era Julian Tharpe was also working for MSA, and it's not out of the question that we built a couple 14 string guitars. MSA even made a single neck 20 string for Julian.

If you care to provide additional information, pictures and a serial number, I will be happy to pursue identifying the guitar.

George M....I appreciate your remembering me after all these years.

Bill Hatcher · From: Atlanta Ga. USA

thank you reese! maybe the buyer will post a serial n umber when he gets the instrument.

Edwin Allen · From: Windermere, Florida, USA

hey guys - i just saw reece's comment and i think i'm experiencing stage 1 (denial).
i have given it a pretty good once over and looked for a SN but not found one (probably another bad sign).
where would the SN typically be located?
another oddity is that the aluminum neck is stepped at about the 18th fret position. - ed

Edwin Allen · From: Windermere, Florida, USA

I still can't find a serial number but these photos should reveal most of the pedigree of this guitar. Thanks, Ed

Reece Anderson · From: Keller Texas USA, R.I.P.

Edwin A.....Thank you for posting the additional pictures.

There should have been a serial number on the bottom of the guitar close to the pulling system, possibly even under some of the parts. However, admittedly, in those early days of MSA, our record keeping may have been somewhat lacking.

I stand corrected concerning my earlier comment about the metal neck. Seeing the step down refreshed my memory that we did make a few metal necks using a step down at the high end.

Our opinion at the time was, the step down allowed room for pick entry, yet to the left of the step the frets were very close to the strings which provided a visual feeling of closeness, thus the perception that the guitar played very fast, while also promoting bar accuracy.

I still believe today, that the step down concept has merit. I know most would be surprised were they to elevate a fretboard close under their strings, because they would find the entire guitar to have a different "feel", although nothing is touching or changing except the fretboard elevation.

Concerning the 14 string fretboard, it's likely that too was made by MSA even though it doesn't have the usual Chess Pieces.

When Chuck Wright worked with MSA, he made a few guitars for us which were called MSA Imperial. Those guitars featured a polished underside, knee levers mounted on the outside of the cabinet, as well as like connectors on the underside of the cabinet and on the pedals themselves. All indications to me at the moment, is that this guitar was one of our few Imperial models, which could also account for the slightly different looking pedals.

I have to wonder why there are holes both on top and on the back edge between the right knee levers, as well as what the two screws were for to the right of the right knee right.

Junior Knight · From: Eustace Texas..paddle faster..I hear Banjos...

maybe a wrist lever?
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Edwin Allen · From: Windermere, Florida, USA

Reece - I'm not certain about the holes in the case, but the two large screws to the right of the RKR lever thread into the body of the changer mechanism.
I'll continue to look for the SN as I disassemble and reconfigure it.
As received, this guitar sounds great using the two pedals which are impressively smooth. Two levers operate but are not set up well.
So I'm gonna shoot for a 5/3 or 6/2 set up in a sacred steel based tuning.
Thanks to all for your interest and advice (and the offer Bill!).
All the best from stormy Florida (summer has settled in). - Ed

Bill Hatcher · From: Atlanta Ga. USA

good luck to you with the msa. it is so interesting!! i have had several msa guitars. they just always have a good vibe about them! dont forget my offer! Winking

David Wright · From: Pilot Point ,Tx USA.

I think Maurice is right, the pedals look like the ones my Dad used in that time frame, A nice find,

Jerry Hayes · From: Virginia Beach, Va.

Hey Edwin, instead of trying to create two different tunings on this guitar I think you ought to look at Bill Stafford's copedant and just go the 14 string one tuning route. I'd love to have that guitar..........good luck with it....JH in Va.
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Don't matter who's in Austin (or anywhere else) Ralph Mooney is still the king!!!

Michael Hutchison · From: Indianapolis, USA

So the cross bars don't rotate along their axis, but rather slide laterally with a pivot point on the bass side of the guitar?

Does that do a pretty good job at balancing the timing of the pulls, since the treble strings need a longer throw anyway?
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