6 String Lap Steel vs. Dobro technique

Tyler George-Minetti · From: Burlington, Vermont, USA

Hey all- I've been playing lap steel for several years without following any real technique. I'm wondering what, if any, differences there are between 6-string lap steel and dobro technique. It seems to me that I could simply apply traditional dobro technique to 6-string lap steel.

At the moment I use open G (GBDGBD) tuning almost exclusively, which is also the standard dobro tuning. Any suggestions or insight into this question?

Thanks,

T
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Jim Pitman · From: Waterbury Ctr. VT 05677 USA

I play both and tune GBDGBD on both as well.
My thoughts are as follows:
One can let a dobro note sustain without blocking, pluck some other notes and it doesn't become the cacophony of dissonant notes like it can become on a lap steel. I think this is just the nature of electric vs acoustic instruments in general.
I would say a Dobro has more dynamics again because of the acoustic vs/electric thing.
On the other hand a lap steel can sustain longer than a Dobro.
I'll play Sleepwalk on both and the lap steel sounds better. I 'll play Foggy Mountain Breakdown on both and the Dobro sounds better.
Keep in mind one can aggressively damp or not damp at all and any thing in between on either instrument to get a different timber or sound.
Generally I find myself palm blocking on the lap steel and pick blocking on the Dobro.
I've noticed on recordings that Dobro gets lost if there are more than a few instruments mixed in compared to a lap steel. However, it's overtones occupy a lot of bandwidth and the dobro sounds wonderful with just an acoustic guitar and bass for example.
I love slants on a lap steel - Jerry Byrd. He was the master.
I don't believe Jerry Douglass ever plays a slant on the dobro. He's also a master.
I think you can bring your Dobro technique to lap steel but if you keep at it you'll find you change your approach out of necessity.

Joel Bloom · Posted 5 Mar 2012 3:35 pm

I think Aubrey Guent plays dobro tuning on sacred (electric lap) steel music.

J. Wilson · From: Manitoba, Canada

I play both as well, at an intermediate level, and I would say that the thing I notice most is that lap steel requires a far more stalwart pick-blocking technique than dobro, which I find as more forgiving that way.

I blend both palm and pick blocking techniques myself. I find the lap steel more sensitive... not that the dobro isn't sensitive, it is also. But if I had to say which I found fussier, I would definitely say the steel.

Love them both to death tho...
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HowardR · From: N.Y.C.-Fire Island-Asheville

I'm first & foremost a dobro player......but I don't want to sound like one when I play steel.....I play in G and G6 tunings.....

When I'm playing lap/console steel, I use a bullet bar and try not to lift it off the strings as much as when I'm playing dobro.....I try to avoid hammer ons & pull offs unless it's really justified....I really try to be as smooth as I can and play in a more glissendo style....

On dobro I use a grooved bar and play in a more staccato style....I also play harder with a stronger attack.....

Either style, I sound like crap.... Laughing

Tyler George-Minetti · From: Burlington, Vermont, USA

I suppose my angle on all of this is that i've been considering buying some type of instructional supplement, either a DVD or book, and was considering purchasing one for the Dobro rather than the 6-string lap steel since there seems to be more solid instructional materials for the dobro. Thoughts?

T
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Brad Bechtel · From: San Francisco, CA

Depends on what you want to learn. If you want to learn lap steel, purchase instructional material for that. If you want to learn dobro, purchase instructional material for that.
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John Mulligan · From: Ontario, Canada

I started out this way too, playing lap steel in dobro tuning. It worked out pretty well, but I was frustrated with the voicings I couldn't get. I got into C6 and liked the richer voicings right away. I still like playing in open G or open D on my resonator and I keep a second lap steel in open E. I have moved on from C6 to Don Helms E6 tuning. There is a lot of good instructional material available for C6 tuning that you are apparently not aware of. I'm no expert but I'd say start with the Cindy Cashdollar DVDs and the DeWitt Scott book Basic C6th Nonpedal Lap Steel Method.

Rob Anderlik · From: Chicago, IL

Some great insights on the responses here. Just to add to the discussion - there is a significant difference in the string tension between dobro and lap steel, with much greater string tension on a dobro. As a result dobro players tend to use more hammer-on's and pull-off's to voice licks and melodies. They sound good on dobro but you can't get quite
the same effect trying to use those embellishments on lap steel. I also find that I have to work harder to pull good tone out of a dobro than I do when playing lap steel. Not that playing lap steel doesn't involve working to pull tone, but you can get by with a lighter touch due the difference in string tension and the mechanics of the instrument. Of course as in all things, YMMV

Orville Johnson · From: Seattle, Washington, USA

I'd say the main difference between lap steel and dobro playing is the greater sustain of individual notes on the steel. Your blocking and muting have to be extremely well developed for steel playing. You can get by on the dobro with some ringing notes and, in fact, allowing notes to ring is desirable in some cases.

On the subject of hammer-ons and pull-offs, I remember some of the older non-pedal steelers, like Kayton Roberts, using them on steel to good effect but, once again, if you do use them you have to be able to damp the ringing tones so your notes are clear.

Mark Eaton · Posted 8 Mar 2012 4:25 pm

I've always liked the Jerry Douglas analogy of dobro vs. lap steel: the dobro is like a handsaw whereas lap steel is more like a chainsaw.
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Paul Shambroom · From: Minnesota, USA

What is the scale of your steel, and what string gauges are you using to bring it to G tuning? I'm in the same boat- a low-to-mid level Dobro player (guitar first), wanting to learn lap steel in the same GBDGBD tuning.

Jack Aldrich · From: Washington, USA

Bill McCloskey · From: Nanuet, NY

Dobro playing for me is all about the banjo like "roll", and when i play it I'm often taking on the role of the time keeper, keeping a steady roll going under the tune to drive the music forward. Hammer ons and pull offs add to this sense of time keeping.

lap steel playing is completely different. I liken it more to violin playing, where (in my playing) it takes on the lead part, and otherwise adding fills and perhaps a base line.

Wayne Shriver · From: New York, USA

I just started to learn to play Lap Steel and was not aware of the various open tuning used compared to the standard guitar tuning I played several years ago. Although I am totally not qualified to comment on one tuning vs another (you guys are all talking way over my head here), I bought several method books on learning Lap Steel, but almost all are for C6 tuning. When I bought my Lap Steel, the salesman (who plays Lap Steel)tuned my guitar to C6 - but did not tell me about the various tunings. I signed up for lessons, but in my first lesson, my guitar instructor re-tuned my guitar to Dobro open G with G-B-D-G-B-D as you are describing here. I have taken 3 lessons and still haven't an answer from him as to why he teaches in this tuning. The problem is after my paid-for group of lessons is done, I am not going to continue with these lessons. So, does anyone know of a Good teaching method book for learning to play Lap Steel using Dobro open G tuning? I have one book in open G, but it is not for Dobro. I can also re-tune to C6 after lessons are over, but I will lose all of the stuff I learned in these lessons. I figure if I can get a book in this Dobro tuning I can keep going, then after I learn to play, maybe I can switch to another tuning.

Peter Jacobs · From: Northern Virginia

Even though I started playing lap steel before I got my hands on a dobro, it took a long time for me to get away from dobro-like technique. As a long-time banjo player, I thought in "acoustic" terms, and didn't really understand what electric instruments are good at -- especially sustain.

Now that I have both lap steels and a dobro, I play them differently, even though I basically use G tuning on both. The biggest difference is that I play fewer notes on the steel (although I'll hit more double stops) -- I'll let them ring longer. I'm more likely to use pull-offs and melodic runs on dobro than steel.
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Stefan Robertson · From: Hertfordshire, UK

Reality not so well known:
Dobro = sharp hammer on style little sustain

Lap Steel Guitar = smooth mellow slide the bar rarely leaves the strings. sustain is looooooooong so karate chop it otherwise your tones will bleed one into another and sound awful.

Player perspectives
Dobro is almost percussive in attack style

Lap Steel Guitar is almost bowed in its glissando and vibrato control.
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Mark van Allen · From: Watkinsville, Ga. USA

Hi, Tyler, as noted here I think you are safe to think of the differences between acoustic resonator and electric lap steel in terms of string tension and sustain, and the sound of an amplifier versus the acoustic reso cone sound.

You can approach those tools by playing differently, or playing the same kinds of ideas, up to you. I usually play acoustic "Dobro" in open G, and electric lap in C6, D or E to get the sounds I'm looking for. Randy Kohrs, for instance, plays both reso and lap steel in open G and sounds completely different on each.

As far as translating from tuning to tuning and utilizing method books in different tunings, note the reso tuning you use is GBD GBD or two stacked triads of the 1, 3, and 5 of the major scale. Standard C6 lap steel is usually tuned CEG ACE, where the lower three strings are again the 1, 3, and 5 of the scale/chord, as the upper two strings are the 1 and 3. So you can use everything from a dobro course on the bottom three strings of a C6 guitar (transposed for key, of course), or anything from the bottom three string of a C6 course on either set of strings on your dobro tuning.

If you're already comfortable in G tuning, yes, you might have to adjust for muting techniques and adjust the amount of hammer-ons and pull-offs in your approach on electric lap, but G tuning is a useful and great sounding setup on electric. There is something to be said for sticking to one tuning between electric and acoustic instruments for consistency of thoughtâ€¦ Or not!
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Edward Meisse · From: Santa Rosa, California, USA

[quote="HowardR"]I'm first & foremost a dobro player......but I don't want to sound like one when I play steel.....I play in G and G6 tunings.....

When I'm playing lap/console steel, I use a bullet bar and try not to lift it off the strings as much as when I'm playing dobro.....I try to avoid hammer ons & pull offs unless it's really justified....I really try to be as smooth as I can and play in a more glissendo style....

On dobro I use a grooved bar and play in a more staccato style....I also play harder with a stronger attack..... " end quote."

....and I lift the bar from time to time to damp with my left hand. I would never do that on an electric instrument.
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Edward Meisse · From: Santa Rosa, California, USA

Stefan Robertson · From: Hertfordshire, UK

Haven't met any proficient jazz player that can't play a specific genre of music.

Same goes for steel. If you can play Jazz and master that playing any genre would come easily. So 6th tuning and learn jazz and its sonic complexity and theory applications.

Jazz is easy on the ear but hard on the years.
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Edward Meisse · From: Santa Rosa, California, USA

I agree. And I really wish everybody would do that. But I think very few players would want to start out learning jazz in order to be able to play folk and/or rock/blues styles. And then of course it looks extremely difficult to get effective banjo rolls on any 6 tuning I've ever seen. I don't blame anybody for following their own inclinations to play the music they like with the easiest set up they can find.
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Stefan Robertson · From: Hertfordshire, UK

Mark Eaton · Posted 14 Aug 2015 1:07 pm

As the saying goes, "there's more than one way to skin a cat."

There's also the one I hear occasionally, more from younger folks these days, "it's all good."

I took delivery a couple weeks ago on an Asher Electro-Hawaiian Jr. with Bill's upgrade kit including improved electronics, a pair of Lollar Imperial Humbuckers, and the belly bar for standup playing with a strap.

Some of you know personally or are at least familiar with Randy Kohrs of Nashville. Studio owner and producer/engineer, and multi-instrumentalist who first came on the scene as a hot dobro player more than anything else.

Bill Asher set up Randy with the same guitar fairly recently at Summer NAMM in Nashville, and during one of those Little Walter amp nights at 3rd & Lindsley Randy took the stage with a bunch of other hot pickers.

In my trip to Nashville for Rob Ickes' ResoSummit 2010, at the conclusion of a class I took from Randy he was blowing me away with some pretty accurate sounding Brent Mason electric guitar licks - except he was playing them on a G-tuned dobro.

Below is a link to a short (one minute) video Bill Asher shot at the Little Walter event this summer, and it's Randy taking a break on his new Electro-Hawaiian Junior. Bill hasn't put it up on YouTube yet, so I am giving you the Facebook link - and I have no idea if you can even view the thing if you aren't a Facebooker, but anyway here goes - This is some serious hot lap steel pickin':

https://www.facebook.com/randy.kohrs.3?fref=ts
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Edward Meisse · From: Santa Rosa, California, USA

I got to Randy's page. But I couldn't find the recording. Forum member Billy Cardine has done some great trad jazz recordings in G though. They may still be available on free download.
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