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Whip Lashaway


From:
Monterey, Tenn, USA
Post  Posted 20 Feb 2012 5:10 pm    
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It's already been done like the original. Do your own thing and make the song yours. Learn it close to original and then put yourself into it and make it yours.
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Clyde Mattocks

 

From:
Kinston, North Carolina, USA
Post  Posted 20 Feb 2012 5:25 pm    
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It depends entirely on the situation. Some artists require their stuff played like the record and if you accept the job, then do it. If your cover band wants to do it like the record, either do it that way or go elsewhere. My playing situations are all over the place, sometimes complete freedom, sometimes strict adherence. I will sometimes learn a part note for note, but over time (maybe from boredom) I'll start to sneak little things in, then I can hear the record a year later and realize its more me than the original guy. Like one poster said, I can play something on a record and then not play it like that on a live show. In Kenny's case, I would do the intros and signature parts as close as possible since Marshall Tucker fans aren't coming to a steel seminar, they're coming to hear Toy Caldwell invented parts. I respect Kenny for his understanding of his role.
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Cal Sharp


From:
the farm in Kornfield Kounty, TN
Post  Posted 20 Feb 2012 6:22 pm    
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Tell 'em if you'd been on the session that's the way it would sound.
I've seen Buddy playing with Darrell McCall, doing songs that he cut with Darrell, and he was reading a chart.
All you really need is a signature lick or two, like "Look At Us" or "Night Life", and just play the rest of it with the same feel, but not necessarily the same notes.
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David Zornes

 

From:
Ohio, USA
Post  Posted 20 Feb 2012 6:35 pm    
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We don't have the advantage that many of the session and road musicians had "back in the day" when a steel guitarist could phone Pete Drake up and ask,
"I'll be working with Wanda Jackson next week Pete, how did you get that kick-off on that song?" Or, make a call to Emmons and ask how he came up with the break on a particular Ray Price song. I, as a former road musician, had to listen to the artist's album over and over in order to get a very close representation of the session players rendition; and had no complaints with any artist I've ever worked for; and there were many.
I also agree totally with Jim Bob Sedgwick.
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Dave Hopping


From:
Aurora, Colorado
Post  Posted 20 Feb 2012 6:38 pm    
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Clyde's right.As an example,Don Henley requires his players to toe the mark,and the Eagles are pretty fearsome live-except when Joe Walsh doesn't quite get Bernie Leadon's "Take it Easy" guitar solo.Another example-Buck Owens fired Jay Dee for not doing Tom Brumley's parts.Another pair of examples was Bob Dylan and Eric Burdon tanking their respective signature tunes and sounding just dreadful while their bands did letter-perfect backing.
Can't go wrong playing it as recorded.
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Ron Scott

 

From:
Michigan
Post  Posted 20 Feb 2012 7:10 pm    
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I liked Kelly's answer if you can sing it like Ray Price then I can play it. I also thought Tom Brumley was the greatest of players and I learned to love steel guitar from his version of Together Again but I would never fire JD Maness for lack of playing just like Tom. He has some great licks of his own. I remember reading somewhere that Buddy Emmons told a record producer if he wanted the sound of any other steel player then they should get them. I hope I'm not speaking out of line about Buddy.Ron
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Jim Bob Sedgwick

 

From:
Clinton, Missouri USA
Post  Posted 20 Feb 2012 7:46 pm    
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Ron Scott wrote:
I liked Kelly's answer if you can sing it like Ray Price then I can play it. I also thought Tom Brumley was the greatest of players and I learned to love steel guitar from his version of Together Again but I would never fire JD Maness for lack of playing just like Tom. He has some great licks of his own. I remember reading somewhere that Buddy Emmons told a record producer if he wanted the sound of any other steel player then they should get them. I hope I'm not speaking out of line about Buddy.Ron



Jay Dee told me a few years ago that at times the singer would request that he would play "like you did on my dub session 3 years ago." Jay Dee told him to bring a copy of the dub to listen to because (Jay Dee quote"..... I can't remember what I played on a song from a week ago. LOL
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Bobby Hearn

 

From:
Henrietta, Tx
Post  Posted 20 Feb 2012 8:48 pm    
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Aw heck..

Last edited by Bobby Hearn on 21 Feb 2012 10:09 am; edited 1 time in total
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Dave Hopping


From:
Aurora, Colorado
Post  Posted 20 Feb 2012 10:13 pm    
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Bobby-
Dale can change up "Apartment #9" however he likes.He's Dale Watson and you're not.
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b0b


From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
Post  Posted 20 Feb 2012 10:51 pm    
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I've heard that John Hughey never played a song the same way twice, but every time I heard him play "Look At Us" he did it exactly the same.

I have a hard time duplicating some of my old songs because I've changed tunings. Mrs. Lee says "You used to play that perfectly. Why don't you just play it like you used to?" I say, "I'm trying, it's not easy."

As for other people's parts, I like to learn them to understand what the pros are doing. But actually performing someone else's parts on stage isn't in my DNA. I'll approximate the signature licks if I like them, that's about all.

Of course, I don't get a whole lot of work... Embarassed
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Bobby Hearn

 

From:
Henrietta, Tx
Post  Posted 20 Feb 2012 10:56 pm    
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I just make sure to get the signature parts and a lot of times if its a guitar/fiddle or piano solo, i work out the fiddle or piano part and I enjoy that.

Last edited by Bobby Hearn on 21 Feb 2012 10:19 am; edited 1 time in total
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Cal Sharp


From:
the farm in Kornfield Kounty, TN
Post  Posted 20 Feb 2012 11:18 pm    
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Lots of singers re-release their hits, and the licks ain't always the same. Price, Hag, Clapton, Faron… When I was with Faron I didn't always try to play what was on an original record that might be 30 years old - it was just too dated.

One of the cool things about jazz is that alternate takes are often included on albums. That should give you a clue.

Of course, this concept only applies to classics, not to manufactured hits by some artist who got a record deal from winning something on a TV show and that you'll never have to play again a year from now.

OTOH I knew a fiddle player who was on the "Best Little Whorehouse in Texas" gig, and they all played what was on their music stand - the same thing every night. His challenge - to keep from geting bored out of his skull - was to play it better than he did the night before.
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Kenny Martin


From:
Chapin, S.C. USA
Post  Posted 21 Feb 2012 5:28 am    
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Makes sense Cal!

I remember hearing Tommy White play with Vince Gill at the Opry doing one of the famous tunes i think "Look at us" and TW kicked it off just like Papa John.

When he did the lead he kind of did it like John but played it a little different. It was awesome and for me i enjoyed it just as much.
Not sure but my feelings was that there was alot of emotion with Vince and Tommy doing the song and i felt he didn't do it just like John, even though he could, out of respect. Leaving the original belonging only to John Hughey. I am not speaking for TW by no means, just my feelings watching and listening.

I don't think the audience felt they didn't get what they wanted. In fact it was a gift to hear Vince and Tommy do it to me.

I'm getting the feeling that when it's not done just like the original its mostly steel players that feel they didn't get what they wanted. Ya think?

I just wanted to hear what the steel world felt on this subject and i appreciate all the comments.

This saturday at Bill's we will be doing some pretty famous country tunes and i'll see about doing them like the originals and then a few like i want to and see what happens!

When i do the show with MTB i'll be sure to do "Fire on the mtn" like Mr. Caldwell! Very Happy
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Bill Miller

 

From:
Gaspe, Quebec, Canada
Post  Posted 21 Feb 2012 5:30 am    
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Didn't Paul Franklin do the steel on the the original ' The Cowboy Rides Away' by George Strait? I'm not sure, but assuming he did, have a listen to how he played it on the Brooks & Dunn rendition that I posted in the ' Steel on the Web' section. I think I might even prefer it to the original but it's certainly not the same.
In any event, perhaps the orignal was done by someone else, but it isn't uncommon for the top guns to change things up a little compared to what they laid down on the original cut. Signature riffs are mostly retained but after that it's the essence of the things that counts.
Merle Haggard seems to have liked to do his songs differently almost every time re-recorded them...although he started to lose me a little bit when he got into his trumpets phase.
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Gary Preston


From:
Columbus, Ohio, USA
Post  Posted 21 Feb 2012 9:25 am     '' Be Yourself ''
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Just my 2 cents . I was talking to one of the top touring steel players a while back about a song he did that is very very famous today among steel players . I asked him about the way he played the song and he told me that most of the time he never played it as it was recorded ! Understand , this is the guy that made the song famous ! So what does that say to us ? To me it says play the song the best you can but ''Be Yourself '' ! If we all sounded the same wouldn't it be very boring ? I have found this out at the steel jams ,if everyone played the song the same way you would be ready to get up and leave ! I tell folks play the same song but with different chord grips or licks ,the song will still be recognized ! For example Together Again . I think the song was made famous by using the 3/5 th strings . So try 5/6 strings or any other combination and see how that works for you . Same songs different strings ! Launch out and see how deep you can go ! G.P.
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Marc Friedland


From:
Fort Collins, CO
Post  Posted 21 Feb 2012 10:08 am    
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Many interesting and valid points are being made -- Here’s my take on “playing it like the record”…
I realize my definitions are slightly different than some of yours – I’m certainly not saying my definitions are better, just saying these are mine.

The only times I expect to hear the steel, guitar, keyboard and fiddle solos and fills exactly like the record is:
Tribute Band – always
The original artist – some to most of the time

If a band is being billed as a Tribute Band, I expect each member of the band to look, sound & act as close to a particular portion of that band’s history as possible.

I don’t usually expect to hear a “cover band, or “show band” copy all the exact parts and nuances that a tribute band is required to do.
If they do to some extent – that’s fine too.

If it’s a cover band playing a club/bar that caters to dancers, I think the most important thing is that the band plays the songs very close to the tempo and feel of the original. And yes – signature & easily-recognizable intros & riffs need to be there as well, but copying the fills, & solos from the original is totally optional.
And when I say easily-recognizable riffs – I’m referring to the average listener, not an experienced musician.
If I’m kicking off Josh Turner’s “Your Man” and most audience members immediately recognized and knew what song we were about to play without it being announced, then I feel I did my job correctly, even if an experienced steel player (who wouldn’t be in the audience anyway 99% of the time) would know it’s slightly different than the original recording. And if it’s one of those 1 out of a 100 nights and a steel player came up afterwards and said “I’ve been working on that song and noticed you played it different than the record” I’d say “you’re right, you’ve got a good ear” and then maybe continue the conversation if time allows. As a matter of fact if it were after the gig was over and I was going to be leaving my equipment on stage, I might invite him to show me how he/she plays it (providing they’re not drunk or obnoxious).

I don’t believe deliberately changing the words to a song are the same as one of the lead players playing a different solo or fill, providing those fills & solos are staying true to the feel and attitude of the song. To me, the words and “basic” vocal melody are the primary ingredients of the song, and a cover band doesn’t get to change them. I believe the lead players get to “color” the song slightly different if they choose to and can do so without altering the integrity of the song, but the singer has to sing the original words. The lead singer can alter the melody (slightly) to suit their own range & vocal style, providing it doesn’t dramatically sway too far from the feel & attitude of the song.

If it’s a “show band” in an environment that’s more “listener” friendly as compared to dance oriented – I expect the band to do what they consider to be the most entertaining for the listeners of that show. Perhaps they’ll say here’s what it might sound like if Elvis sang Achy Breaky Heart or what if Johnny Cash sang Purple Haze. If this is the “flavor” of that band’s show I would expect them to be playing “their” versions of the tunes they’re covering, not at all like a tribute or a traditional cover band. They can change tempos and time signatures within a song because they don’t have to consider the likes and dislikes of the line dancers. The vocalist can even sing different words than the original for entertainment’s sake.

-- Marc
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b0b


From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
Post  Posted 21 Feb 2012 10:29 am    
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In many bands, arrangements are changed and stretched with solos for the dance crowd. The original artist almost never does that.

Most country standards, like many older rock tunes, have become what I call electric folk music. Anything different you do with them is allowed, even encouraged. They may not technically be public domain, but in the eyes of the actual public they are.

Marc makes a good point about tribute bands. When I play a Hank Williams or Gram Parsons tribute show, I try to get as close to the original steel part as I can. But when I'm playing "Your Cheating Heart" in a club or dance venue, I play whatever I feel like playing. That's what I mean by electric folk music.
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Tony Prior


From:
Charlotte NC
Post  Posted 21 Feb 2012 10:38 am    
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Dave Hopping wrote:
except when Joe Walsh doesn't quite get Bernie Leadon's "Take it Easy" guitar solo.


Agreed...No it's not exactly the same but it is very similar ( with Joe's own touch) and this song along with Peaceful Easy Feeling , the solo's should be played as close as possible by the guitar players, these are signature solo's that the world recognizes and loves, they are as important to the song as the lyrics are. These two songs are not the same without guitar solo's that are close...
Quite frankly a band that plays these songs with the solo's missing is like Spaghetti with no Meatballs !

that's my view ...

At the end of the day it pretty much doesn't matter, if we have a few gigs and do well, and get a return call, that's what matters. IF you can learn a few signature parts and then add your own touch to a song, then that's a win win..

everyone goes home happy....

t


PS, one thing I can say from a small amount of experience ,if indeed you are learning signature phrases here and there, ( close not exact) and then find your way into a fill in gig with a band with a similar set list, you will get their attention quickly...it's like prepping for a gig you haven't got yet...
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Jerry Foster


From:
Missouri, USA
Post  Posted 21 Feb 2012 10:55 am    
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hello friends, I just stay in the melody line with a little chord progression. it gives a really warm sound to the Ballad tune. that's what I do. Smile have a good day.Jerry f.
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Richard Sinkler


From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
Post  Posted 21 Feb 2012 11:12 am    
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Bill Miller said:
Quote:

Didn't Paul Franklin do the steel on the the original ' The Cowboy Rides Away' by George Strait? I'm not sure, but assuming he did, have a listen to how he played it on the Brooks & Dunn rendition that I posted in the ' Steel on the Web' section. I think I might even prefer it to the original but it's certainly not the same.


Allmusic.com lists the steel players on Strait's version, on the "Does Fort Worth Ever Cross Your Mind" CD, as Hank DeVito and Weldon Myrick (not saying that Allmusic is always accurate).

I try to play as close to the record as possible on many songs. Often times, it is the intro or solo of a song that makes me like the song in the first place. Like on "Farewell Party", I try to play (well, get close) the intro and solo that Lloyd Green did on Gene Watson's version. Although other versions by Joe Nichols (don't like this version), Alan Jackson (with Paul Franklin - also don't like this version) exist. And there is a YouTube video of Watson doing this song on Country's Family Reunion with Mike Johnson on steel. All are different but capture the essence of the one on Watson's record.

Any song that had a solo or intro that had a real impact on the personality of the song, I try to duplicate. But there are many others we do that allow me a lot of freedom. On "Together Again", we do 2 rounds of leads (actually 2 split leads), the guitar player plays the first half of the first solo and I play something close to what Brumley played. The second solo, I take the first half and play something of my own, but close to the melody and flow of the song, and the guitar player plays the second half. Works out great.
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Dave Hopping


From:
Aurora, Colorado
Post  Posted 21 Feb 2012 11:19 am    
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Tony,what you're saying about an instrumental solo being an integral part of the tune is sooo true.That the session player in essence sells his songwriting credit for the session pay is an artifact not of music,but of the music business-think JB's "Workin' Man Blues" six-string solo,which Roy and every other lead-playing Stranger,including Hag himself has aimed for(with varying degrees of success!).

For bar-band players like myself,who never got anywhere near the majors,what has worked best ten times out of ten is getting it as close to the record as my admittedly limited abilities would permit.Get it right=more work.

Again admittedly,the amount of liberty one may take depends almost entirely upon one's stature,and I can't resist citing just one more Eagles example:
In the vid I referenced,taken a couple of years after Steuart Smith replaced Don Felder,Smith replicated Felder's parts with almost inhuman accuracy and precision.Walsh did his own parts faithfully,Leadon's,not so much.But again,he's Joe Walsh and Steuart isn't.
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Marc Friedland


From:
Fort Collins, CO
Post  Posted 21 Feb 2012 1:15 pm    
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One example used (and rightfully so – it’s a good example) is the guitar solo of Peaceful Easy Feeling from The Eagles early work. A very popular song played over & over again on the radio and people’s home stereo systems. Even the average non-musician listener who probably doesn’t pay much attention to the specific musical parts, and mainly focuses on the vocals, probably could come pretty close to being able to sing the guitar solo, note for note at that time.
Of course, I have to admit, I don’t remember how it goes right now without listening to it again. The times I’ve played that song, I improvised the solo and I’ve never learned it note for note – I would even accept that you might consider I never learned it correctly, but in defense I’d like to point out that the audiences appreciated the group’s 3-part harmony and the fact I played that solo different from the record didn’t seem to “get in the way” as we were well received and hired back numerous times.

I guess the point I’m trying to make is how different the average listener is compared to musicians learning to better themselves in their craft.

Pedal steel solos seem different to me – I think it would be difficult to find as many songs that the average listener can sing the pedal steel solos to as be able to sing some 6-string guitar solos. I think generally speaking – the average listener is much more used to the sound and phrasing of the 6-string guitar parts, and not as familiar with the pedal steel’s approach of multi-notes and phrasing.
And also some guitar solos are relatively pretty easy for the novice ear to follow.
So I think a pedal steel player can improvise a solo without detection much easier than a 6-string guitarist. You can call it cheating if you’d like, I don’t necessarily do, but would accept it if that’s how you view it.

Other examples –

Folsom Prison
I think this Guitar intro should be played like the original
The lead solo(s) are optional, though I enjoy it if they’re similar

Brown Eyed Girl
I think this Guitar intro should be played like the original (different voicing’s could be OK)
Following fills throughout the song are optional
The melodic guitar part during the 1 to 6 change of the chorus needs to be there in some form – people expect to hear it! (Of course they’ll hear it in their heads even if no one plays it)
Bass Guitar solo should be at least a close reminder of the original

OK – I’m going to stop thinking about this for a while as I have to get ready to go perform one of my steady gigs in the Nursing Home circuit. (On these gigs I play acoustic guitar and sing, no steel, or electric, etc.)

-- Marc

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Tony Prior


From:
Charlotte NC
Post  Posted 21 Feb 2012 1:29 pm    
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and then there is Blue Bayou...

Simple, distinctive, defined the song , global identity and mind blowing !

There is no way you can play this song , not play the D Dugmore solo and feel good about it !
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Joe Miraglia


From:
Jamestown N.Y.
Post  Posted 21 Feb 2012 1:51 pm    
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I like half and half,and Half a%%ed Smile
At times when something goes wrong,its good to have some of your own tricks in the bag.And it might be good if you could fill in if the lead guitar player is having trouble, Broken string, Oh Well Amp. blows up. At times you may have to improvise. Signature licks are important you should get them as close as possible,if not so what thats Ok Winking Joe
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Tyler Hall


From:
Mt. Juliet, TN
Post  Posted 21 Feb 2012 3:29 pm    
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I look at it this way, if the person paying you says play the record, then play what's on the record. Otherwise I always grab signature parts and make the rest my own. I put more emphasis on copying the "feel" of the record than I do on playing every single note that was played. I always try to make everything I play my own in some way.
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