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Topic: Playing open G (dobro) tuning on C6 neck |
Todd Brown
From:
W. Columbia , South Carolina
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Posted 22 Nov 2011 7:51 pm |
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Wondering how many play this kinda setup? No pedals, just a straight GBDGBD tuning. And, what strings do you use? 6 strings or 8? I've been playing with C6 gauge strings, but have some resonator gauge strings on the way.
I know a matchbro with the bar that came with it is best, but I'm using a Boss eq and a pyrex slide to achieve a very passable dobro sound.
The string spacing being much closer takes getting used to but I think it's gonna work out! I know Mooney played a dobro tuning on his front neck, just not sure what tuning or how many strings.
So, any insights from you guys that have a similar setup. I'm not changing anything on the top of the guitar, I'm just gonna tune 6 strings up to open G and let 'er rip!! Beats carrying a dobro, with all the other stuff I have to lug in and out. Plus having to mic it and switch instruments during a gig. Any tips, or ideas??? |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 22 Nov 2011 8:09 pm
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On my Cth neck, I have a pedal and knee lever that do exactly what you are talking about. See copedent below. That would be my RKR (which is the traditional pedal 7 on the floor) and my pedal 9. On strings 3 - 8, I now have a G dobro tuning. I also can used pedal 8 with that combo to get a 7th chord.
| Tab: |
LKL LKV LKR 5 6 7 8 9 RKL RKR
D...............................D#
E...................D#......F
C........D.............................. B.....D
A........Bb...Bb/B.............................B
G......................F#.......F
E...................F.......D#......D
C..C#...............................B
A...................................G
F..E...................F#
C..A...................D
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I find it just as easy to play dobro (and Ped-A-Bro) stuff on the E9th neck.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, NV400, NV112 . Playing for 54 years and still counting.
Last edited by Richard Sinkler on 23 Nov 2011 9:45 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Todd Brown
From:
W. Columbia , South Carolina
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Posted 22 Nov 2011 8:18 pm Nice!!!!
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If I were to get all crazy and add a pedal to my open G tuning, what would be the string(s) to pull and to what pitch?
I like the idea, Richard. I'm just not much on C6 playing, so I figured I'd go all the way with the open G tuning. |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 22 Nov 2011 8:57 pm
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Let me think on that and post tomorrow.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, NV400, NV112 . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Eugene Cole
From:
near Washington Grove, MD, USA
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Posted 22 Nov 2011 10:09 pm
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You could certainly install a Lock mechanism like Universal players use to lower their E's to D# (when switched to the B6 mode/setup) which would give you a GBDGBD on your C6 neck. See Richard Sinkler's RKR above for how to do this.
However: If you are going to mimic a 6 string tuning on a PSG you need to have those 6 strings in the same squence on the PSG as they are on the original tuning with no gaps. Or to say this another way if you want the GBDGBD G-tuning then the same tuning with an E-string in the middle of the sequence (GBDEGBD G6 tuning) will not work the same.
If you add that extra E string (for G6 tuning) between the D and G in the middle of the tuning; then any slants which cross where the E-string now resides would change things a lot. For example: the Esus9 (E G# D) on strings 5, 4, & 3 on the same strings on the same frets is now a G-minor (G Bb D) in the G6 tuning. Thats a big change.
G tuning
| Tab: |
D ! ! ! ! ! G ! ! ! ! B ! ! ! D ! ! ! ! ! G ! ! ! ! B ! ! ! D !
B ! ! ! D ! ! ! ! ! G ! ! ! ! B ! ! ! D ! ! ! ! ! G ! ! ! ! B !
G ! ! ! ! B ! ! ! D ! ! ! ! ! G ! ! ! ! B ! ! ! D ! ! ! ! ! G !
D ! ! ! ! ! G ! g#! ! ! B ! ! ! D ! ! ! ! ! G ! ! ! ! B ! ! ! D !
B ! ! ! D ! ! e ! ! ! G ! ! ! ! B ! ! ! D ! ! ! ! ! G ! ! ! ! B !
G ! ! ! ! B ! ! ! D ! ! ! ! ! G ! ! ! ! B ! ! ! D ! ! ! ! ! G !
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G6 tuning
| Tab: |
D ! ! ! ! ! G ! ! ! ! B ! ! ! D ! ! ! ! ! G ! ! ! ! B ! ! ! D !
B ! ! ! D ! ! ! ! ! G ! ! ! ! B ! ! ! D ! ! ! ! ! G ! ! ! ! B !
G ! ! ! ! B ! ! ! D ! ! ! ! ! G ! ! ! ! B ! ! ! D ! ! ! ! ! G !
e ! ! ! G ! ! ! Bb! B ! ! ! D ! ! ! ! ! G ! ! ! ! B ! ! ! D ! ! e !
D ! ! ! ! ! G ! ! ! ! B ! ! ! D ! ! ! ! ! G ! ! ! ! B ! ! ! D !
B ! ! ! D ! ! ! ! ! G ! ! ! ! B ! ! ! D ! ! ! ! ! G ! ! ! ! B !
G ! ! ! ! B ! ! ! D ! ! ! ! ! G ! ! ! ! B ! ! ! D ! ! ! ! ! G !
e ! ! ! G ! ! ! ! B ! ! ! D ! ! ! ! ! G ! ! ! ! B ! ! ! D ! ! e !
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I'll add that the tighter string spacing of a PSG means much steeper angles when doing slants. For me swapping instruments is a lot easier than trying to learn to play those slants at VERY different angles because I have 2 separate string-spacings. But your results may vary from my results.
_________________
Regards
-- Eugene <sup>at</sup> FJ45.com
PixEnBar.com
Cole-Luthierie.com
FJ45.com
Sierra U14 8+5 my copedent, 1972 MSA D10 8+4, and nothing in the Bank. 8^) |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 22 Nov 2011 10:30 pm
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Eugene, the slants and hammer-ons still work the same with E strings in the way (but then I rarely use three-string slants because they don't play in tune, except corner slants). Since I only own one TIFKAD, I play bluegrass on my 8.
If I were to put pedals on a straight G tuning, I'd want the following changes, all or none: Bs to C; Bs to A; Bs to Bb; Ds to E; Gs to F# and Gs to A. Possibly Ds to C#.
EDIT: If you meant only ONE pedal? Bs to A. An inverse A pedal. Or tune Bs to A with a raise to B and you usually keep it pressed. When I want pedal sound outta my Dobro, I tune to A and pull with ring finger to B.
But I have mixed feelings about hanging a changer on a TIFKAD tuning. Once you got changes and you ain't afraid to use 'em, you (or at least I) stop thinking like a Dobro picker.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects
Last edited by Lane Gray on 22 Nov 2011 10:59 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Wayne Franco
From:
silverdale, WA. USA
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Posted 22 Nov 2011 10:48 pm Try this with your g tuning
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| Tune the 4th string up from D to E. Give you a G6. Changes a lot the way you thing about things on it. Full minor chord is nice. |
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Todd Brown
From:
W. Columbia , South Carolina
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Posted 23 Nov 2011 1:11 am
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So Lane says "tune the B's to A, and raise them to B for a pedal sound". Sounds Cool!! I'll give it a try.
Keep 'em coming guys, I love all the ideas. Didn't think this many of you play a dobro type tuning on one of the necks of your steel. 
Anybody using a 6 string set of nickel reso strings? |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 23 Nov 2011 6:32 am
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BTW, Todd, hubcap guitar guys have done that for decades.
One of the cuts on Jerry Douglas's early (his first? I think so. It was the first time he stopped sounding like Mike) album Fluxology had him doing that the whole song
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 23 Nov 2011 10:35 am
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Well, I thought long and hard last night (kept waking me up, actually) And this is what I would put on, assuming you have all the pedals left in place on your C neck:
| Tab: |
4 5 6 7 8 RKL RKR
D.........E
B....A.........C....Bb
G............................F#.......F
D.........E
B....A.........C....Bb
G
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Based on my dobro playing experience, these are the changes I would want. This would allow a country type Ped-A-Bro setup. You also have the option of using no pedals for true dobro playing (ala Bluegrass). Also, if you just use 6 strings, you may be able to still use a dobro capo on the strings, but I doubt you could use the pedals and have them return to pitch correctly. Of course, if you can find one, there used to be a capo made for steel guitars that was essentially just a round bar that had one side machined flat (similar to a sitar bar but smaller diameter) that slipped under the strings. That would be ideal. Then again, you could have one made if you can find the right diameter rod. I would use stainless so it won't rust and you wouldn't have to pay to have it plated. But then, a machine shop could turn down a piece of bar stock to the right diameter and mill the flat for you. That would probably be better as you will be reasonably sure the diameter is consistent throughout the length of the bar.
Explanation of the tuning above.
Pedal 4 gives that reverse pedal A that Lane mentioned for that "country" sound that releasing the A pedal on E9th gives.
Pedal 5 is the equivalent of the A pedal on E9th.
Pedal 6 is the equivalent of the B pedal on E9th.
Pedal 7 give you a Gm.
Pedal 8 I didn't have anything else I wanted to add, but you could add changes to give you a diminished chord or something else you liked (or see knee levers to follow).
RKL is equivalent to the E to Eb lever on your E9th neck. I only put the change on string 3 as a lot of players only put one C6th change on their right levers because they are also pulling strings on the E9th so you might not have the parts to pull 2 strings without buying more parts. If you have 2 changes on either of your right knee levers on your C neck, I would put this change along with lowering string 6 to F#.
RKR gives you a 7th chord with the root on string 6. This could be moved to pedal 8 if you don't have changes available on both right knee levers (like my old Sho~Bud Professional, only one right knee lever worked the C neck).
These changes reflect the the slants we have to use the most often on a dobro, and allows ped-a-bro sounds for country stuff, as we hear that occasionally on recordings these days. It also gives minor and seventh chords without having to use 2 note partials like on the dobro.
The reason I rarely use the setup I have on my C6th, is that none of the bands I play with play any bluegrass. And the songs I do use the dobro effect on are in the keys of E, F, and F#, which were always a pain to play on the dobro. One song (Long Haired Country Boy by Charlie Daniels - key of D) is a song we play and I could feasibly play on the C neck with my pedal 9 and RKR, but it lays out nicer on the E9th neck with pedals added to the mix.
Some additional points.
I think I would at least add a 7th string to the tuning an put a high G on string 1 so I could have a 1 note on top like the 4th string of the E9th.
You could move pedal 7 over to the 8th pedal and put the equivalent of a C pedal on 7 by raising your G's to A and your D's to E. Might be cool to have that minor chord possibility.
When playing this tuning, try to use a Steven type (I prefer Scheerhorn and Shubb bars) so you can get the hammer on's and pull off's. They just don't come off well with a round bullet nose bar. I wish someone would make a stevens type bar out of plastic like the bullet bars you can get for the Match-Bro, Bo-Bro, etc... I have one of the round plastic bars, and it is not the same. Plus, they would need to make it out of a plastic that would allow some sustain. The plastic bar I have allows no sustain, and a real dobro does sustain. It stays home in a drawer. It's useless to me.
OK. for you nay-sayers, you are probably thinking, with those pedal changes, why not just play the E9th neck. Well, I mostly do, but the poster wanted to put a straight G dobro tuning on. It is nice when playing fast bluegrass (or any other music), not to have to jump over strings to play. If I didn't play C6th I would probably put a more involved 10 string G dobro tuning on the bottom neck. Another option would be to have a guitar with a 12 string uni on one neck, and a dobro 6 or 7 (my preference) string neck on the other. And still another, if you didn't want the ped-a-bro sound options, you could probably set the pedals to just alter the tuning into other tunings like we used to do in the beginning of the pedal era. It would be like having a guitar rack full of dobros tuned to different tunings.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, NV400, NV112 . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Tony Dingus
From:
Kingsport, Tennessee, USA
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Posted 23 Nov 2011 6:19 pm
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Todd, I've tuned my C neck to a G/G6 tuning. I'm having fun with it .
-------4----5----6-----7-----8-----K
1-E----
2-F#--G
3-D-------------------------------C#
4-B-------------C
5-G-------------------F#----G#
6-D--------E
7-B---C---------Bb
8-G-------------------------G#
9-E
10-C-------------------------B
I use pedal 4 & 5, string 6 & 7 for baritone plus strum all strings for a nice Maj 7. I can still get 6th sounds and chords with a tuning I've played for 35 years.
Tony |
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Todd Brown
From:
W. Columbia , South Carolina
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Posted 23 Nov 2011 8:17 pm
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Thanks for all your thoughts and insights. Richard you really overdid it brother!! I never expected you to come back with all that 
You guys have come up with some really cool stuff. It's nice to see I'm not the only one using something other than the traditional C6 tuning.
For now, I'm just gonna stick to the 6 string non pedal open G tuning. I might eventually mess around with the pedals changes mentioned. But I'm still wrapping my head around the basics. 
Some talk above about using the plastic bar from the Matchbro. Also the stainless steel Stevens, or Shubb bars. I have no experience with using the bar that comes with the Matchbro, but it does sound the best, hands down! The most authentic. Although, I think if you're using an EQ, like the Boss, which is what I have, or the Danelectro EQ to achieve an acoustic resonator tone, you need to use a plastic or glass bar of some type, or it just sounds too electric and clangy. I've got a little cheap $4 Pyrex glass slide that I'm using, and it sounds really good!! I'd say tone wise, if a Matchbro w/ the plastic bar is a 10, then this Boss GE-7 w/ the pyrex slide is an 8!
My advice is stay away from the steel bars if your trying to get a real authentic dobro sound.JMHO |
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David LeBlanc
From:
New Brunswick, Canada
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Posted 11 Mar 2017 7:31 am
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| Hi . I know this is an old post , but it fits my dilemma. I play E9th and recently got a D10 Carter. I had a D10 Linkon in the past, but never touched the C6. Then I got MSA S10. Now that I`v had the Carter for a few months, I`m thinking of putting a G-tuning on the back neck. I play country and Acadien (Cajuns older brother)music. Up tempo with lots of fiddle. I know my way around a dobro(not a pro by any means) and like Richard Sinklers ideas. I was wandering what essential pedals would be ideal . I would have pedals 5,6,7,& 8 to play with. I like the feel of my knees with just E9 , but could add a vertical on my right for the back neck giving me 5 changes. I guess my question is what would be the best set up- pedal sequence ,string gauges,even bell crank holes ect. Any answers would be appreciated . Thanks, Dave. |
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