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Topic: best/safest lubrication? |
Bob Poole
From:
Myrtle Beach SC, USA
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Posted 5 Aug 2014 1:46 pm |
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| Have never had a problem with Rem Oil gumming up.it's always worked great for me but now I'm a little worried after reading the post about what happened to it in the can....i usually get the small can & it gets used around here pretty quickly.i sometimes spray a little on a cloth & wipe down my Telecaster's strings.seems to brighten them up & I know I get more use out of 'em between changes. |
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Godfrey Arthur
From:
3rd Rock
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Posted 6 Aug 2014 12:47 pm
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| Don Ricketson wrote: |
Dang Godfrey, and I thought the underside of a D-10 looked complicated  . |
Hi Don. For all the organ's internal complexities, I find the keyboard easier to negotiate and a good trade-off. 
Laurens Hammond started off making clocks (which you can still find many on sale on eBay) run by a synchronous motor he invented that keeps time from 60hz AC from your wall socket. The same synchronous motor idea is used in the Hammond organ tonewheel generator, and is what keeps the organ at A-440. Looking at the wheels and gears, one would surmise it looks like the internals of a clock.
Hence the correct oil is essential to keep this up and running.
As a rookie psg player myself, looking at the underside of any multi pedal/levered psg and then thinking about wearing finger and thumbpicks, using a bar, picking and dragging, moving both feet and both knees, raising and lowering strings, trying to get all those complex harmonies, chords and melodies at the same time while attempting staying in tune, is one heck of a head scratcher.
Definitely a player/instrument in a league of its own. There's nothing else like it. 
_________________
ShoBud The Pro 1
YES it's my REAL NAME!
Ezekiel 33:7
Last edited by Godfrey Arthur on 6 Aug 2014 1:42 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Godfrey Arthur
From:
3rd Rock
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Posted 6 Aug 2014 12:58 pm
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| Dave Magram wrote: |
so that a thick protective coat of paraffin would be formed on top of the Teflon to protect it from mud and dirt on the gears and chain. Bicycle gears and chains obviously have much wider clearances than 0.003" and much more force being applied to them than the slight force of a string trying to return to pitch.
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Now I see where paraffin is a good thing.
_________________
ShoBud The Pro 1
YES it's my REAL NAME!
Ezekiel 33:7 |
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John Prather
From:
Indiana, USA
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Posted 5 Aug 2015 6:18 am How about graphite
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| I like to lift the nut roller and rod every year or so and dust the roller shaft with dry graphite. It doesn't create a residue and it doesn't attract dust. |
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Rich Upright
From:
Florida, USA
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Posted 5 Aug 2015 9:23 am
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Funny; I'm on a few Harley forums (Harleys & pedal steel are my 2 favorite things in the world) and they bandy the oil thing back & forth ad nauseum--synthetic vs dino, atf vs. Formula 1,etc, just like here.
Used to use Harley 20-50 oil on my steels ('cause I always have it), but now use 3-in-1. Always seems to work fine, but I WILL buy some tri-flo next time I'm in an ACE hardware.
_________________
A couple D-10s,some vintage guitars & amps, & lotsa junk in the gig bag. |
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John Prather
From:
Indiana, USA
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Posted 5 Aug 2015 9:45 am Lubrication
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| I just like the graphite because it doesn't collect dust. 3 in 1 oil is just a non detergent SAE 20 oil. 10 weight non detergent oil like Sewing Machine Oil might be preferable for the Nut Rollers and Changer lubrication. |
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Jim Sliff
From:
Lawndale California, USA
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Posted 10 Aug 2015 10:15 pm
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This is an old thread that keeps coming back - but I'll repeat what I've said in other threads after 35+ years in the coatings/industrial chemicals industry:
ALL oils will attract dirt and other contaminants and eventually get gummed up, unless flushed out regularly. It doesn't matter whether it's motor oil, gun oil, sewing machine oil (which I used years ago), motorcycle oil or oil-like compounds (example - WD40 should be allowed nowhere near a musical instrument - it's a filthy solvent only good for corrosion control on garage door springs and some kinds of water displacement).
I use only small amounts of DRY Teflon (PTFE) lube, and never suffer from gumminess, sticking parts or drag. You need to be careful with Teflon to make sure you are getting the "dry" type (where the solvent completely flashes (evaporates) off. Don't ever rely on store clerks to know which ones are dry.
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional |
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John Prather
From:
Indiana, USA
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Posted 11 Aug 2015 8:01 am Ptfe
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| Thanks Jim, This is why I used graphite. PTFE is the modern replacement for graphite and it actually has better lubricity and longer life. WD40 was the 40th experiment in water displacement. Good for lubricating rusted bicycle chains. |
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Mike Wheeler
From:
Delaware, Ohio, USA
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Posted 11 Aug 2015 8:07 am
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Jim, of course is correct. What may be confusing some people is that the TriFlow is applied wet, but the fluid is only a carrier used to get the teflon into the tight places (shake container frequently). It evaporates after a short time, leaving only the dry teflon behind to do the work of reducing friction.
This is the product that should be used on a steel guitar. It comes in a small aerosol can also, but I prefer this bottle, which comes with a mini straw for precise application.
BTW, I respectfully disagree with using graphite to lube a steel. I've had to completely disassemble 2 steels that were bound up and stiff because of graphite. There were no other issues involved. Once they were cleaned up, lubed with TriFlow, they played like new and have never needed any more lubrication....it's been 4 years now.
_________________
Best regards,
Mike |
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Johan Jansen
From:
Europe
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Ken Metcalf
From:
San Antonio Texas USA
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Posted 25 Aug 2015 9:27 am
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Remington Gun Oil here
Recommended to me by Mr. Bowman |
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Brett Lanier
From:
Madison, TN
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Posted 25 Aug 2015 11:55 am
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| Couple weeks ago my changer was squeeking a lot during a sound check. I ran out to the van and grabbed the 5w 30... Hasn't squeeked since ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ |
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Charlie McDonald
From:
out of the blue
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Posted 26 Aug 2015 4:19 am
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Catching up to the present, my appliance repairman recommended the synthetic lubricant available from beauty salons for lubricating
hair clipper blades, with very thin tolerances. Have yet to try it on my fan, yet....
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Those that say don't know; those that know don't say.--Buddy Emmons |
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Jan Viljoen
From:
Pretoria, South Africa
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Posted 26 Aug 2015 9:35 pm Graphite
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Thanks John Prather, I like your approach.
I use 3 in 1 oil on my changers, which is the same as the Singer variety, but on all other open moving parts, I use graphite.
A good friend of mine who is a retired army man and luthier, advised me on graphite.
He still had a can of the stuff in his workshop and gave me some as I could not find it in any shop here. The spray on graphite is apparently no good, but I have not tried it.
I also use it on my rollers and all moving parts of my old 1925 portable reed organ (pedals, rods etc) and it works perfectly. No mess there or dripping oil, All parts move silently.
Let the games begin!
Photo of my small organ.
_________________
Sierra S10, Stage One, Gibson BR4, Framus, Guya 6&8, Hofner lap, Custom mandolins, Keilwerth sax.
Roland Cube 80XL, Peavey112-Valve King and Special, Marshall 100VS. |
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Will Cowell
From:
Cambridgeshire, UK
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Posted 27 Aug 2015 1:10 am
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While I'm very much in agreement with the concensus on dry Teflon as a lubricant, I am really puzzled about Mike Wheeler's comments on graphite.
Graphite (not graphite grease) is the element carbon, in a particular form (allotrope) where the atoms are bound tightly together in sheets, but the sheets are not. This is why the layers slide so smoothly across each other, and why it is so effective as a lubricant. Graphite as such simply cannot "gum up". It doesn't "pick up" other impurities and it doesn't deteriorate over time, nor change its properties.
I suspect he had some problems with steels that had been doctored with graphite grease - an altogether different proposition.
_________________
Williams 700 series keyless U12,
Sierra keyless U14, Eezzee-Slide & BJS bars
Moth-eaten old Marshall 150 combo
Roland Cube 80XL, Peterson Strobo+HD,
EarthQuaker Despatch Master for reverb / delay |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 27 Aug 2015 5:29 am
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But isn't the powder slightly hygroscopic? In time, with humidity, it can paste up, no?
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Mike Wheeler
From:
Delaware, Ohio, USA
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Posted 27 Aug 2015 9:09 am
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Will Cowell, I'm not a chemist, so I can't claim expert knowledge as to the properties of graphite. What I do know is that both of those steels I referred to were rendered useless by a thick layer of some kind of graphite lube. I don't know if it was originally a paste, liquid, or powder.
If, as you say, the dry graphite is a superior lubricant, I have no reason not to believe you. But I would question whether it's use on a pedal steel is wise. In my experience, it's pretty messy stuff to work with (you don't want to breathe it in), and it tends to get everywhere.
If you can provide a good procedure for using it for lubing a pedal steel, I'm sure we'd all be interested.
_________________
Best regards,
Mike |
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Will Cowell
From:
Cambridgeshire, UK
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Posted 27 Aug 2015 9:40 am
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Lane, graphite is not hygroscopic. You will find web sites relating to firearms stating that it is, but all the reference sites relating to the physics and chemistry of carbon in this form will say it is not hygroscopic. Ergo, it is a folk myth.
Mike, depends on the form you use it in. You can get sticks of high purity graphite, and just rub it on the surface in question. You don't have to use a fine powder. But if you did, a simple dab on an artist's paintbrush will suffice.
But my point is this: if you found a steel gummed up because of graphite, it was graphite GREASE, not graphite. Everyone knows that grease dries and cakes up, apart from attracting dust and other abrasive particles harmful to the mechanism. It's great if used in a sealed environment, but not openly.
_________________
Williams 700 series keyless U12,
Sierra keyless U14, Eezzee-Slide & BJS bars
Moth-eaten old Marshall 150 combo
Roland Cube 80XL, Peterson Strobo+HD,
EarthQuaker Despatch Master for reverb / delay |
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Mike Wheeler
From:
Delaware, Ohio, USA
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Posted 27 Aug 2015 11:00 am
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From what you've said, Will, I presume I'd have to use a "stick" of graphite, or apply the powder with a small brush. Is that about it? But wouldn't the stick include some kind of binder...like paraffin?...which would remain. Hmmmm. I'm just curious, not challenging you.
I still think TriFlow, or it's equivalent, would be preferable, particularly for a steel guitar. After the carrier evaporates there's nothing but microscopic teflon particles left. I just don't see how graphite is a better alternative.
_________________
Best regards,
Mike |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 27 Aug 2015 11:30 am
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i've mentioned this over and over but i guess no one cares.
lps1 ..used it for over 30 years.
never a problem.
feel free to ignore a me and post a thousand more posts with questions about what to use. i know you will. |
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Lee Dassow
From:
Jefferson, Georgia USA
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Posted 27 Aug 2015 12:24 pm
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and I also mentioned REM.OIL with TEFLON before in case no one saw it. Good for guns and steel guitars. T.L.
_________________
2015 Mullen D-10 Royal Precision 9x8,-1990 BMI S-10 5x5-1972 Silver face Fender pro Reverb amp,-1965 Fender Super Reverb Amp,- 1966 Fender Showman Amp Two 15" JBL speakers,- 2006 65 Fender Twin Reverb reissue Amp,- 1982 Peavey Session 500 amp,-1978 Peavey Session 400,Goodrich Volume Pedals,John Pearse Steel Bars, |
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Will Cowell
From:
Cambridgeshire, UK
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Posted 27 Aug 2015 12:51 pm
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I'm with the body of thought that says the dry Teflon works great. Not oil with Teflon, because the oil gums up sooner or later. I've used it very effectively in military rifles over a long period. Not much stands up to that sort of abuse.
I'm not an apologist for graphite. I have no brief for the stuff. But it works just as well as Teflon, and I merely corrected some misconceptions about graphite.
Graphite is a solid, not a powder - unless you turn it into powder of course by grinding it up. It needs no binder to stay solid. Just leave it alone and it'll stay solid for ever. C'mon guys, this is Chemistry 101. Maybe they don't teach it any more.
_________________
Williams 700 series keyless U12,
Sierra keyless U14, Eezzee-Slide & BJS bars
Moth-eaten old Marshall 150 combo
Roland Cube 80XL, Peterson Strobo+HD,
EarthQuaker Despatch Master for reverb / delay |
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Mike Wheeler
From:
Delaware, Ohio, USA
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Posted 27 Aug 2015 7:28 pm
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OK, Will, I give up. I'm done with this "discussion". Every form of lubricant has properties that make it ideal for certain applications. But just because one lube is outstanding in one application, doesn't necessarily make it outstanding in any other.
I'll continue recommending TriFlow over any other lube because I've tested it in real world machinery (besides steel guitars) over many years and found it to be an incredibly effective replacement for oil of any kind. In fact, it actually prolongs mechanical life far beyond what oil is capable of.
But, as everyone must say these days, YMMV.
_________________
Best regards,
Mike |
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Will Cowell
From:
Cambridgeshire, UK
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Posted 28 Aug 2015 12:13 am
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Strange response, Mike. I repeat, once again, I am not trying to change your mind. I am not advocating one lubricant as against another. I support your choice of lubricant. I merely corrected an error of fact about graphite. If you had been reading my posts correctly you would have seen that. Don't I get that courtesy?
_________________
Williams 700 series keyless U12,
Sierra keyless U14, Eezzee-Slide & BJS bars
Moth-eaten old Marshall 150 combo
Roland Cube 80XL, Peterson Strobo+HD,
EarthQuaker Despatch Master for reverb / delay |
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Reilly Graham
From:
Vermont, USA
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Posted 28 Aug 2015 5:30 am
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| also backing Rem Oil. something just feels right about using the same oil on both my shotgun and my steel. doesn't get much more American than that. |
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