| Author |
Topic: question about Stringmaster-style Fender steel tone |
Garry Vanderlinde
From:
CA
|
Posted 8 Oct 2011 11:12 am |
|
| I put a Seymore Duncan Strat pickup in a late 50’s Fender Champ guitar hoping it would sound like a Strat but it doesn’t. One factor might be the longer 251/2”scale length of the Strat vs. 221/2” on the Champ. I was surprised to find the original Champ pickup sounds stronger and more full bodied. |
|
|
|
Doug Freeman
From:
Los Angeles, CA
|
Posted 8 Oct 2011 1:26 pm
|
|
| The Deluxe 8 I have sounds very big and rich, with either or both pickups engaged. Definitely not Strat-like at all, in the quacky out-of-phase sense. Even if the two pickups were wired as in a Strat, I don't think they're physically far enough apart to get appreciable phase cancellation. |
|
|
|
Steve Ahola
From:
Concord, California
|
Posted 8 Oct 2011 1:47 pm
|
|
| Laurence Pangaro wrote: |
| Anybody ever tried a Stringmaster style wiring with non-Stringmaster style pickups or even a mix of types...? |
I've done a lot of experimenting mixing single coils in series and in parallel in regular guitars, and you can get some very interesting sounds (some good and some not so good.) But I've never tried anything like the Stringmaster control which I suspect is wired across the two neck pickup leads (which is wired in series with the bridge pickup). In Fender terminology:
Parallel wiring: Connect the white wires together, connect the black wires together. Connect white wires to Hot, connect black wires to Ground
Series wiring: Jumper the white wire from one pickup to the black wire of the other pickup. Connect the other white wire to Hot and the other black wire to ground.
(Color codes do vary from time to time so just follow the factory color coding on your instrument.)
For the Stringmaster Blend control (as I picture it) you would connect the two wires jumpered together to the middle terminal of a 100k-250k pot and the terminal normally grounded on a volume control would be connected to ground. With the Blend control set to 0 the neck pickup is bypassed so the sound is from just the bridge pickup. As you turn the control up, the neck pickup is mixed in, in series with the bridge pickup for a thicker tone.
At least that is the game plan I intend to follow...
Steve Ahola
Note: Depending on the instrument what I call Hot might be connected to a volume control or it might be connected to a switch. It is signal output from the pickup which will eventually get to the output jack if the volume and tone controls are set to 10.
BTW with Series wiring if you jumper the two black wires together with one white wire going to Hot and the other white wire going to ground you get "series- out of phase" which kinda sounds like a wah pedal kicked back to maybe 40%. Adding a Stringmaster blend control should work really well. (I'm not a big fan of parallel- out of phase but I really like series- out of phase.)
Correction: I actually did wire up a two pickup guitar with a 6 position rotary switch including a series linkage. In series mode it was like you'd have a Stringmaster blend control on each pickup (set one p/u to 10 and you could blend in the other pickup in series just like on a SM). I really liked how that worked out...
_________________
www.blueguitar.org
Recordings on electric guitar:
http://www.box.net/blue-diamonds
http://www.box.net/the-culprits |
|
|
|
Dave Bader
From:
Pennsylvania, USA
|
Posted 18 Oct 2011 5:21 pm
|
|
| Has anyone else switched the pickup positions on there stringmaster? I have done it on one and my Rukavina with stringmaster pickups. It does make for a slightly warmer sound in the single coil position of the blend knob. I find the stock single coil position to be too thin and bright. |
|
|
|
Steve Ahola
From:
Concord, California
|
Posted 18 Oct 2011 8:22 pm
|
|
| Dave Bader wrote: |
| Has anyone else switched the pickup positions on there stringmaster? I have done it on one and my Rukavina with stringmaster pickups. It does make for a slightly warmer sound in the single coil position of the blend knob. I find the stock single coil position to be too thin and bright. |
You mean adding in some of the bridge pickup to the neck rather than adding in some of the neck pickup to the bridge? Makes sense to me and it should be easy enough to do, just switching the hot wires from the two pickups.
All Parts makes a 250k double-ganged blend pot which goes from 100% neck to 100% neck/100% bridge to 100% bridge, and everything in between. (With a typical balance control you would have something like 50% neck/50% bridge in the middle position- not really desirable in a guitar or steel.) The All Parts stock number is EP-0385-000
http://www.allparts.com/250K-Balance-Blend-Pot-p/ep-0385-000.htm
Steve
_________________
www.blueguitar.org
Recordings on electric guitar:
http://www.box.net/blue-diamonds
http://www.box.net/the-culprits |
|
|
|
John Groover McDuffie
From:
LA California, USA
|
Posted 21 Oct 2011 10:19 am
|
|
Wow, for some reason I haven't been getting notifications of replies to this thread since my 2nd post! Thanks for all the replies.
Yes, it makes sense that since the pickups are in series they wouldn't interact in the same way as the pickups on a strat. |
|
|
|
Dave Bader
From:
Pennsylvania, USA
|
Posted 23 Oct 2011 5:21 am
|
|
| Steve Ahola wrote: |
| Dave Bader wrote: |
| Has anyone else switched the pickup positions on there stringmaster? I have done it on one and my Rukavina with stringmaster pickups. It does make for a slightly warmer sound in the single coil position of the blend knob. I find the stock single coil position to be too thin and bright. |
You mean adding in some of the bridge pickup to the neck rather than adding in some of the neck pickup to the bridge? Makes sense to me and it should be easy enough to do, just switching the hot wires from the two pickups.
All Parts makes a 250k double-ganged blend pot which goes from 100% neck to 100% neck/100% bridge to 100% bridge, and everything in between. (With a typical balance control you would have something like 50% neck/50% bridge in the middle position- not really desirable in a guitar or steel.) The All Parts stock number is EP-0385-000
http://www.allparts.com/250K-Balance-Blend-Pot-p/ep-0385-000.htm
Steve |
Yes that's what I ment only I rotated the pickups rather then move the wiring. |
|
|
|
basilh
From:
United Kingdom
|
|
|
|
basilh
From:
United Kingdom
|
Posted 16 Oct 2014 2:44 pm
|
|
| Erv Niehaus wrote: |
| The early Stringmasters didn't have a blend knob. |
That is true Erv, BUT the tone control was wired in such a way as to also be a blend control: with the tone control fully open it's just the bridge pickup and as you rotate it, so the neck pickup comes into play AND the Capacitor also.. A 'Double Wammy' |
|
|
|
Stephen Cowell
From:
Round Rock, Texas, USA
|
Posted 16 Oct 2014 9:00 pm
|
|
The 'blend' control shorts out the neck pickup (they're in series, that's why you don't get a 'quack' sound). Basically you get to fade in the neck pickup with the bridge.
I took one of my Strat tone controls and made it into a blend knob... now I can get neck+bridge, or various flavors. Using the five-way switch, you can set it to neck and fade in some bridge, or set it to bridge and fade in some neck.
When you swap the pickup's positions you're putting the hotter pickup in the neck slot... they're calibrated to put the weaker one there, since the string moves more at that spot. Not that that's a bad thing... I think I'd prefer it that way, I'll have to try it sometime.
_________________
New FB Page: Lap Steel Licks And Stuff: https://www.facebook.com/groups/195394851800329 |
|
|
|
basilh
From:
United Kingdom
|
Posted 17 Oct 2014 2:18 am
|
|
The 'blend' control on the Mk2 stringmasters is wired in a completely different way to the Mk1. Also the Mk1 Stringmasters didn't have pickups with reverse winding and opposite magnet polarity on the pairs..
Early Stringmaster wiring, notice that the 'neck'pickup goes trough the tone pot ! (This was Freddie Tavares' design)similar to the first Telecasters..
Later wiring where the tone pot is separate..
 |
|
|
|
Bud Angelotti
From:
Larryville, NJ, USA
|
Posted 17 Oct 2014 3:34 am
|
|
Thanks for posting this Baz!
_________________
Just 'cause I look stupid, don't mean I'm not. |
|
|
|
Jack Aldrich
From:
Washington, USA
|
Posted 17 Oct 2014 7:56 am
|
|
Baz scores again! IMHO, he is THE source for all things Fender - lap and pedal.
_________________
Jack Aldrich
Carter & ShoBud D10's
D8 & T8 Stringmaster
Rickenbacher B6
3 Resonator guitars
Asher Alan Akaka Special SN 6
Canopus D8 |
|
|
|
basilh
From:
United Kingdom
|
Posted 17 Oct 2014 9:23 am
|
|
Thanks Jack, well I do have most models, there was a gap but I now have a Jaguar, so I'm only missing a couple, never liked the Coronado, Starcaster and the 6 string acoustics, so they won't be in my collection, but most of the others are..or were..Space permitting.
It's quite surprising that a lot of players don't know of the function of the tone control on the Mk1's, it IS a blend pot as the wiring diagram shows. I may post a video explaining its best usage and settings etc. |
|
|
|
Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
|
Posted 17 Oct 2014 10:04 am
|
|
Years ago I put a nut-riser on a Stratocaster and played it like a lap steel, but no matter how I adjusted the tone controls or the amplifier settings, no matter which pickup combination I used, I could never get it to sound like a Stringmaster.
It didn't last long. I removed the nut-riser so that I could play it like a Stratocaster again...
...Stratocasters sound best like Stratocasters, and Stringmasters sound best like Stringmasters 
Now I have been experimenting with Fender pickups from a cable-model pedal steel, but that's another story. |
|
|
|
Jack Aldrich
From:
Washington, USA
|
Posted 17 Oct 2014 11:24 am
|
|
| Alan Brookes wrote: |
It didn't last long. I removed the nut-riser so that I could play it like a Stratocaster again...
...Stratocasters sound best like Stratocasters, and Stringmasters sound best like Stringmasters
|
I agree, Alan. I don't understand why you'd want a steel guitar to sound like a Strat. I have a 1970 Tele Custom (Like Keith Richards') that I love to play rock and country on. It's not easy getting a lap steel to sound Hawaiian, unless you work at it.
_________________
Jack Aldrich
Carter & ShoBud D10's
D8 & T8 Stringmaster
Rickenbacher B6
3 Resonator guitars
Asher Alan Akaka Special SN 6
Canopus D8 |
|
|
|
Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
|
Posted 17 Oct 2014 4:05 pm
|
|
| Jack Aldrich wrote: |
| ...I don't understand why you'd want a steel guitar to sound like a Strat... |
Nor do I. I have a Fender/ShoBud hybrid S10 pedal steel, the sort that has rods rather than cables. It's one of my favorite instruments, and I play it almost every day. It has the same machine head as a Stringmaster, but the rest is pure ShoBud, except for the pickup, and the one that they've used is unlike the one Fender put in the Stringmaster, and also unlike the one they put into their cable-operated pedal steels. It's more like a Telecaster pickup, and it's the one thing I'm thinking of changing. Otherwise a great instrument. |
|
|
|
