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Author Topic:  C#m7 tuning for tricones
Ray Shakeshaft


From:
Kidderminster, Worcs, UK.
Post Posted 24 Aug 2011 4:56 am     Reply with quote

Whilst I am 'getting there' with C6/A7 and A6 tunings I have strung my tricone with C#m7 tuning and I am just not finding it that easy. Are there any teaching materials out there or any ideas. I know it was a fairly common tuning in the old days and a number of today's tricone players use it. Normally I make my own way but it feels I am missing something with this tuning.
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Mike Neer


From:
NJ
Post Posted 24 Aug 2011 5:12 am     Reply with quote

Ray, the only thing I have in the way of C#m7 (one of the tunings that I became very familiar with) is my Sol Hoopii 12th St. Rag lesson. There is a lot of great stuff in there.

The other suggestion I have is to sit down with some later Sol Hoopii (electric) and Dick McIntire recordings and try to figure them out by ear.
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Morgan Scoggins


From:
Georgia, USA
Post Posted 24 Aug 2011 7:48 am     Reply with quote

Ray,
C#m7 is a nice tuning for six string non pedal steel.I might suggest that you use E13 tuning ( E C# B G# F# E) It will give you the advantage of having two tunings in one, that is C#m7 and E9.This tuning is good for a ton of Hawaiian, country and blues songs.If you have a 7 or 8 string guitar you can add a high G# on top and you can do all of the Hank Williams Sr songs in the style of Don Helms.You can also leave out the F# if you only have six strings and have a lot of music at your fingertips.
If you will send me a PM, I might have something that would help you.
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Mike Neer


From:
NJ
Post Posted 24 Aug 2011 7:56 am     Reply with quote

Morgan, I think that tuning would be far better for electric steel, but that pitch set only encompasses one octave and probably wouldn't sound great on a tricone, at least from my experiences.
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Morgan Scoggins


From:
Georgia, USA
Post Posted 24 Aug 2011 8:01 am     Reply with quote

Thanks Mike, I was not aware that a Tricone is an acoustic guitar. In that case he would be better off with a C#m7 tuning and he could drop the C# to a B to change to E major tuning.
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Laurence Pangaro


From:
Brooklyn, NY
Post Posted 24 Aug 2011 8:13 am     Reply with quote

There are a handful of selections in Stacy Phillips' "The Art of the Hawaiian Steel Guitar" instructional book for this tuning although it's called B minor there, because he's using dobro tuning as the starting point (and most of the book is in high-bass G tuning). I would imagine there's a bit in the second volume as well. Does anyone know if Bob Brozman's book has any C# minor stuff?

ciao,
LP

p.s. I should point that while the highest four strings remain consistent throughout the selections in the Bm (C#m) tuning, Phillips' book does have some variation on how the lowest two are tuned.
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Mike Anderson


From:
British Columbia, Canada
Post Posted 24 Aug 2011 10:18 am     Reply with quote

Laurence, does Brozman have a book besides the National history? I am only aware of his DVD which as far as I know is all in low bass G (DGDGBD).
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Jack Aldrich


From:
Washington, USA
Post Posted 24 Aug 2011 10:52 am     Reply with quote

C#min7 is the same as an E6. This relationship goes with any key. For instance, a C6 tuning is also an Amin7 tuning. IMHO, if you think E6 instead of C#min, things will go easier for you. btw, there is that 2 key relationship in a lot of tunings. For instance, for the B11 tuning on an 8 string steel, the top 4 strings are an A6, and the bottom 4 strings are a B7. On a pedal steel C6 neck, the top 6 strings are a C6, and the bottom 5 are a Cmaj7.
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Laurence Pangaro


From:
Brooklyn, NY
Post Posted 24 Aug 2011 10:58 am     Reply with quote

I must have been thinking of his DVD. But you answered the question... it's all in low-bass G.

thanks,
LP
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Jack Aldrich


From:
Washington, USA
Post Posted 24 Aug 2011 10:58 am     Reply with quote

Mike Anderson wrote:
Laurence, does Brozman have a book besides the National history? I am only aware of his DVD which as far as I know is all in low bass G (DGDGBD).

Well, talking to Bob about it a few years ago, he believes that pure Hawaiian steel died upon its electrification, somewhere in the mid 30's. The low bass G tuning is called "Taro Patch" by slack key guitarists. Joseph Kikaku used that tuning when he developed the steel guitar, and that was picked up by Frank Ferera, Tau Moe, and all the early steelers, Sol Ho'opi'i, too before he started playing in "C#min7" tuning in the late 30's, so he doesn't use any other tuning than Taro Patch.
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Mike Anderson


From:
British Columbia, Canada
Post Posted 24 Aug 2011 11:23 am     Reply with quote

I love Bob Brozman's music, but this notion of pure Hawaiian steel seems strange to me. That early period of steel incorporated a lot of jazz and Tin Pan Alley influence, and most of it - please correct me if I'm wrong - took place on the US mainland anyway! I think an equally valid case could be made for saying that "pure Hawaiian" steel began after electrification!

What this says to me is that Bob Brozman is a purist about acoustic instrumentation, and I can absolutely relate to the purist ethic as those who have read some of my posts know very well. Smile But at the end of the day I think it's more honest to just say "I prefer such-and-such a period of Hawaiian steel". John, I would love to have a long chat with Mr. Brozman of an evening, glad you got to do this.
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Jack Aldrich


From:
Washington, USA
Post Posted 24 Aug 2011 12:02 pm     Reply with quote

Mike Anderson wrote:
I love Bob Brozman's music, but this notion of pure Hawaiian steel seems strange to me. That early period of steel incorporated a lot of jazz and Tin Pan Alley influence, and most of it - please correct me if I'm wrong - took place on the US mainland anyway! I think an equally valid case could be made for saying that "pure Hawaiian" steel began after electrification!

What this says to me is that Bob Brozman is a purist about acoustic instrumentation, and I can absolutely relate to the purist ethic as those who have read some of my posts know very well. Smile But at the end of the day I think it's more honest to just say "I prefer such-and-such a period of Hawaiian steel". John, I would love to have a long chat with Mr. Brozman of an evening, glad you got to do this.

I believe that Bob is also among the people who believe that jazz died with the advent of the swing era. Indeed, one of the earliest Hawaiian steel records was W.C. Handy's "Yellow Dog Blues". IMHO, there's always been an interchange between Hawaiian and Mainland music - a two way street. I'm not knocking Bob, btw. I enjoy his music and his energy. He's also a great guy. - Jack
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Mike Neer


From:
NJ
Post Posted 24 Aug 2011 12:35 pm     Reply with quote

Sol used high bass A on his acoustic recordings. I'm not sure about the others.
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Kevin Brown


From:
England
Post Posted 24 Aug 2011 1:12 pm     Reply with quote

Hi Ray, Iv just spent the last year in Csharpminor/7th and have found it a truly wonderfull tuning full of hidden suprises.
Heres a couple of tunes of upcoming CD release 'Home and Dry'
"A bit on the Slide'
http://soundcloud.com/kevin-brown-music/09-a-bit-on-the-slide-h-d
Tuned a tone down to D, same intervals as Csharpm7th with 5th string up a tone
And this Jouaquin murphey tune, without raised 5th, key of G ( 5th fret root )
http://soundcloud.com/kevin-brown-music/mai-kai-omole-inu-kakou
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Ray Shakeshaft


From:
Kidderminster, Worcs, UK.
Post Posted 24 Aug 2011 2:44 pm     Reply with quote

Many thanks to all who have responded with ideas and advice. I will work on them.

I have to say that what initially interested me in this tuning is the work of Mike(Neer)and Henry Bodgan in their Moonlighter days and the later's work with The Midnight Serenaders. It was/is the way they integrated the chordal playing on tricone into that overall group sound. I can also appreciate Kevin's solo chordal work too.

For some reason I cannot get my head around this tuning. Perhaps John's idea of thinking E6 might help me to make some progress.

Thanks again.
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John Bushouse


Post Posted 24 Aug 2011 7:48 pm     Reply with quote

Bob's all about cross-cultural pollination. Check out most of his recordings since about 2001 or so, especially the collaborations.
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Mike Neer


From:
NJ
Post Posted 25 Aug 2011 5:33 am     Reply with quote

Speaking of tricones and high bass A, Jeremy Wakefield is playing one now in high bass A with Janet Klein and her Parlor Boys. Holy Toledo...
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Robert Jenkins


From:
Massachusetts, USA
Post Posted 25 Aug 2011 9:32 am     C#m7 tuning for tricones Reply with quote

Now, THAT I want to hear!
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Mike Anderson


From:
British Columbia, Canada
Post Posted 25 Aug 2011 12:05 pm     Reply with quote

John Bushouse wrote:
Bob's all about cross-cultural pollination. Check out most of his recordings since about 2001 or so, especially the collaborations.


I hear you, but not my cup of tea, all that "Afro-Celt Sound System" approach to music-making leaves me completely cold. Fact is, I'm more of a purist than Mr. Brozman ever will be. Smile
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