Brown Vibrolux or Blackface Super?

Marc Stone · From: Louisiana, USA

Apples and oranges, I know. But here's the deal -

I have a Brown Vibrolux available to me for about $1500. I can't read the date code on the tube chart, but has "Vibrolux 6G11" printed on it with the letter "A" hand written in blue ball point ink next to the circuit #. Also in blue ball point is "2" next to printed word "Production".
The chassis stamp is 01052 (1962) and the choke is a late 1961 Schumahcer. Can't read the output transformer, although it is definitely old and looks correct, and the power transformer is an early 1964 Schumacher (which makes me wonder if it is original to the amp).
The speaker is a JBL D131, 16 ohm speaker reconed to 8 ohms and definitely old, but I would imagine not orig to the amp. All caps and power cord are original. The baffle broke recently in shipping but is still in tact, could probably be totaly restored with some wood filler. The orig grill cloth is in good shape and still on the orig baffle. The speaker is sitting in the cab in a new birch baffle.
It was just gone through by a tech who has done a lot of work for me. He seemed to think the transformers looked orig, and other than the speaker replacement there were not any real signs of work done on the amp. It's in good cosmetic condition, slight wear on the corners and some minor scratching on the faceplate.
Sounds great, vibrato to die for, loud loud for a 1x12, and a little stiff, probably due the JBL which I would probably replace with a Jensen Alnico or something similar if I bought the amp.

So we are looking at 1500 for the amp, 50 or so for new grill cloth on the new baffle, a cap job (150?) and a new (or used) alnico speaker (100-200).

In order to do this I would have to sell my 1966 Super which is in great shape and all orig except for a black grill cloth and appropriate replacements for the electrolytic caps. Sweet and clean with orig CTS alnicos, big gorgeous cleans, does not really break up at all the way it is set up currently with clean biased NOS Winged Cs. Love it, but have no attachment to it and do all my gigging these days with my 67 BFDR, which I put on a stand for bigger venues and outdoor gigs. I love it, soundmen love it, and it doesn't break my back or eardrums. No issues with it not cutting it on outdoor gigs or big venues as long as it can be miked. As much as I love the Super, I can't see it becoming my main amp anytime soon, even for big situations. But damn it sounds good.

As I said, I have a great blackface Deluxe, I have a wonderful 59 narrow panel tweed Deluxe, and now it's just a toss up between keeping the Super and getting the Vibrolux. I'm a full time 6 stringer and I primarily play blues, roots rock, funk and Zydeco.

Again, I know we are in apples and oranges territory here, but if you could have only one of these two amps, what would you choose?

Thanks!

J Fletcher · From: London,Ont,Canada

Hi Marc
My opinion is that the Deluxe Reverb is always a better amp than a brown Vibrolux. Can't see why you would ever want to take the Vibrolux to a gig, when you have a Deluxe Reverb.
I would A B them if possible, and see what you think. I know the Vibrolx is a bit more power, 10 watts or so, but I have never liked the low power 6L6 Fender amps. At leasrt not the Brown and BF versions. A tweed Super is another matter entirely!
A Pro Reverb might be a better choice as a next step up from a Deluxe Reverb. Or, a Brown Super, which is a killer amp...Jerry

Marc Stone · From: Louisiana, USA

Hi Jerry,

the BF Deluxe is my main amp. It's the best sounding, most versatile amp I've ever owned, including other BFDRs. The Brown Vibrolux would be for other applications, and my dilemma is not related to the Deluxe. It's whether to keep the Super or sell it to roll the $ into the Vibrolux.

The truth is I just can't see using the BF Super much at all. just too much amp for my needs. Have owned two BF Pros. Gigged and recorded one pretty extensively but not my fav and I sold it to buy the Super.

If you know where I can find a Brown Super, or better yet Brown Vibroverb, that I can afford, let me know!

Marc Stone · From: Louisiana, USA

I made up my mind, I'm going for the Vibrolux.

John Billings · From: Ohio, USA

Hope it has the same "Vibrate-Oh!" as my '62 Super. To die for!

J Fletcher · From: London,Ont,Canada

Hi Marc
I'm saying if I had a Deluxe Reverb and a Brown Vibrolux, I can't see where I would ever choose to take the Vibrolux to a gig, session, rehearsal, whatever. The Deluxe Reverb, for me, kills a Brown Vibrolux for any application.
I realise that didn't answer the question you posed, Super Rev or Vibrolux, it was more a comment on the redundancy of the Brown Vibrolux.
No, they don't have the same vibrato circuit as the 62 Supers, they have output tube bias modulation vibrato. Which is nice enough.
Having said all that, you may find that the Vibrolux is the best amp in the universe for you. My remarks are based on personal taste, naturally.
Enjoy your new amp!...Jerry

Marc Stone · From: Louisiana, USA

Hey Jerry,

I understand your point completely. The fact is the Deluxe Reverb sounds so good and cuts it in every situation I've put it in from low volume restaurant type gigs to being my butt-kickin' rock n roll amp on big stages and everything in between. Which is why I really just have no use for the Super.

I am a little fascinated with the Brown amps, probably in part because I never owned one. I do really like the sound of the Vibrolux in question, and I think with a more forgiving speaker I would love it. Will it replace my Deluxe Reverb, definitely not. Nothing will. But will it get more use than the Super and cover a corner of the tone spectrum that my BFs and Tweed don't? Time will tell... and I do love the Vibrato on it.

John Billings · From: Ohio, USA

"and I do love the Vibrato on it."

I take it that this is the same vibrato as used in the Princetons. Nice, and much better than a Blackface "roach." But nowhere near as nice as the earlier circuit in my Super. If you like Vibrate-Oh!, you've got to try an amp with that circuit sometime!

Marc Stone · From: Louisiana, USA

John and Jerry - which amps other than the Brown Super have the Vibrato you are talking about? The Concert? Maybe I should hold out for a Brown Super?

John Billings · From: Ohio, USA

Well,,,, my white Showman had it, so I would assume the Twins did too. One came into my best friend/tech's shop. I played it for 10 minutes, and started making calls. Traded an old Tom Petty model Rick 12-string for it. Ended up costing me $800 10/12 years ago. A very good deal, as it's mint. Speed turned all the way down, Intensity on 3 or 4? Oh my! What a sound! Not to even mention more standard settings.
Not sure about the Concert, another great Brown Fender!

John Billings · From: Ohio, USA

Paging through my Fender amp book;
The Pro had it
The Twins with 6 7025s had it.
Bandmaster.
Tremolux appears to be bias control
The Vibrosonic had a very, very interesting circuit! Humbucking!
Concert had it.
Showman actually used 3 7025s for it's circuit! Wish I still had that white one. It was an abdo-lute KILLER!
Vibroverb , brown '63, was bias modulated.

Lots of variations in the circuits, but the ones using 2 or 3 tubes are the good ones. The bias modulated version, like the Princeton Reverb used 1 tube, I think, and are good, but not nearly as good as the amps with the more complex circuits. I probably got some of this wrong, but most should be correct.

Edited to add; We're talking white, and brown amps, '61 to '63.

Marc Stone · From: Louisiana, USA

John,

Thanks for the info. I've had no practical experience with the 61-63 era amps. I've played a couple of brown concerts and princeton, that's it. I've played almost every BF amp in some kind of working situation before, and a handful of good tweeds, but never gigged or recorded a brown, other than the RI Vibroverb that I really like. Have done a few gigs on those with really good results. Have often wanted to pick one up, but they never pop up when I'm in the market.

What I seem to like best about the browns I've played is the very smooth transition from clean to overdriven when the amp is opened up and I'm doing everything off the guitar volume. the Vibrolux cleans up very nicely at low volume. Not blackface chime clean, a little more girth and a different top.

Rich Hlaves · From: Wildomar, California, USA

Not long ago a went through a brown Concert for a friend. After repairing bias issues it was one of the best sounding 4-10 amp I have ever played in the sweet spot at a "reasonable" volume. Very responsive to pick attack and cleans up with out loosing too much volume when you roll of the volume control on the Strat or Tele. My BF SR is louder, my Fox 4-10 just cleaner all around, hi fidelity I would say.

Great blues tone from the Concert. I'm looking for a brown amp to restore myself.
_________________
On man....let the smoke out of another one.

CrowBear Schmitt · From: Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France

i had a Concert 30 years ago that i got from a pawnshop
in them years, i managed to get quite a few fender tweed amps like the bassman, bandmaster, deluxe, pro
that concert was my favorite

Al Bettis · From: Houston, Texas USA

If you're looking for a more forgiving speaker you might look at feedback on the net re. Kendrick blackframe speakers. I have them in several amps; they have great vintage tone and are well voiced for the music you describe. http://www.kendrick-amplifiers.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=KOS&Category_Code=12

I had a '61 Brownface 3-10 Bandmaster and replaced the blown speakers in it with the Kendrick blackframes and they sounded great.

Check out both the blackframe and brownframe, or give Gerald a call to discuss; he'll talk your ear off.

But I'd sure hold on to that JBL for a rainy day and another amp.
_________________
Emmons P/P, Session 400, sundry 6 stringed and 4 legged critters, amps old & new

John Billings · From: Ohio, USA

Find out what speaker came with it originally. I have a load of vintage Jensens, and may have the right one!

J Fletcher · From: London,Ont,Canada

I don't know what type of speaker came in the brown Vibrolux originally, but Jensens from that era would be short lived in a healthy 30-35 watt amp. A C12N, as far as I know was the heavy duty 12" from Jensen, and it was a 25 watt speaker. You would probably be better off with a modern day equivalent. There's about a thousand to choose from!...Jerry

Jim Sliff · From: Lawndale California, USA

Personally I would not sell that Super. I have had 2 of them, sold them and have kicked myself ever since. The Vibrolux I'd grab at that price in a nanosecond if I had the money (since I can do all my own work) but I would not sell a '66 Super Reverb to finance it. Period.
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional

John Billings · From: Ohio, USA

My Super ain't for sale Silverface! I like it better than my Dr. Z amps!
jmiles

Dave Grafe · From: Hudson River Valley NY

I have NEVER played through or heard an amp I liked better than a brown COncert with a JBL 15" D130F speaker, unfortunately it was not mine and was certainly not for sale. If I ever find one again that is available my budget is toast....

Marc Stone · From: Louisiana, USA

I sold the Super to good friend here in town and didn't regret it for a second. Even with the Super in tip top shape with great NOS tubes, when I played it back to back with my DR, and when my friend who plays in a very similar style played them both, there was no doubt in my mind that I liked the DR better. I love big 6L6 Fenders, I've owned multiple BF Supers, Pros, Twins, current Twin Amp, Devilles, use backline Twins and Devilles all the time, but the truth is the I just like what I'm getting out of the DR better and I'm getting all the clean volume I need for my purposes. If I really need a big amp with beaucoup headroom it's usually a situation with backline, and if not I can borrow or rent something suitable with no problem.

I'm going to pass on the Brown because though sounded really good, it wasn't "man I need this amp" good. I know with a cap job and maybe a speaker change I can tailor it, but I don't want a project right now and with the market for these amps where it is, I've seen a couple of Brown VLXs that were in closer to orig condition fail to sell for what it would cost me to buy, service and voice the amp. If it were all orig, then I could justify it as an investment, but not with a suspect power tranny and definitely non orig spkr. And sonically, it wouldn't replace the DR as my go-to.

What I think I am going to do is put together a 2x12 8 ohm cab for when I really feel like I need some more cone space on stage. I'll just run the DR out to that. I've asked here about running another 8 ohm speaker out of the ext jack on the DR and gotten mixed responses, so I'd rather not risk it and just put together a cab for those rare occasions I need it.
I'm thinking something like an old Bassman cab with 2 25w 16 ohm speakers. Maybe with a removable slat cut into the back so I can run it open or closed.

Thanks for all of the comments. It was very informative and helped me zero in on what I really want, which is what I already had in the first place. Ah, GAS...

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