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Topic: Texas Troubadours mid-'60s pic |
Alvin Blaine
From:
Picture Rocks, Arizona, USA
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Posted 23 Apr 2011 11:22 pm |
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The Stanley Brothers with the Texas Troubadours.
I know that's Buddy Charleton's ShoBud and Leon's Epiphone on stage, but who are the two on bass and drums in this pic?
It's not Jack Drake and Jack Green, who were the regular bass & drums for the Troubadours around '64 or '65.
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Dave A. Burley
From:
Franklin, In. USA
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Posted 24 Apr 2011 12:06 am Texas Troubadours
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I don't think either the drummer or the bass player were part of the Texas Troubadours. The guy on the guitar on the right of Ralph and Carter Stanley is an old bluegrass artist who is still around. Are you sure those are Leon's and Buddy's instrument's? The Stanley Brothers were not a country act and I had never heard of them working any package shows with country artists. The Osborne Brothers, Jim & Jesse and several other bluegrass artists did but never heard of the Stanley Brothers working with the package shows. Ralph and Carter did not like drums so it's quite surprising to see a picture of them with the drums on the stage........Thanks for the picture. I will have a little fun with some of my bluegrass purist friends showing them this pic.
Dave
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Dave A. Burley
P.O. Box #211
Franklin, Ind. 46131
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Dave A. Burley
From:
Franklin, In. USA
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Posted 24 Apr 2011 12:21 am The Stanley Brothers
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The guy on the guitar is George Shuffler who played with the Stanley's and the Clinch Mountain band for about twenty years. George was one of the originators of cross picking on the guitar.....Ralph Stanly with drums? Unbelievable but pictures don't lie.
Dave Burley
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Dave A. Burley
P.O. Box #211
Franklin, Ind. 46131
Buddy Emmons/Jimmy Bryant live $15.00 includes shipping.
It's The First Time(studio)$15.00 includes shipping.
Curley Chalker/Julian Tharpe live $15.00 includes shipping.
the Cavalcade Of Guitars live $16.00 includes shipping.
Pay by PayPal to: dab7875159@aol.com |
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Alvin Blaine
From:
Picture Rocks, Arizona, USA
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Posted 24 Apr 2011 12:33 am
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That's long time Stanley Brothers band member George Shuffler on guitar.
That is definitely the Texas Troubadours stage set up and the Stanley Brother WERE a country act in the '50s & 60's. They did several tours with Ernest Tub, George Jones, & other Grand Ole Opry artist and even recorded some of George's songs before he did, like "Window Up Above".
Not sure where the not liking drums comes from, because they did use drums on their recordings in the '60s.
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David Nugent
From:
Gum Spring, Va.
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Posted 24 Apr 2011 4:01 am
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| I was surprised to see George Shuffler playing a Martin flat top, I seem to recall that on most of their early recordings he prefered to use a Gibson L-5 arch top. |
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Roger Kelly
From:
Bristol,Tennessee
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Posted 24 Apr 2011 5:13 am
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The guy playing Bass guitar looks a lot like Buddy Charleton....here's a picture of Buddy during that era.
I played on WCYB radio and TV back in the 50's with Red Malone and the "Smoky Mountaineers" and was part of several package shows with the Stanley Brothers.
The Stanley Brothers appeared on several Opry package shows during that time too.
If my Band wasn't booked, me and Jack Miller, Electric Guitar player, would go with Carter and Ralph and George Shuffler, who played Doghouse Bass, and Ralph Mayo, who played Fiddle at that time, and play a few tunes on their regular Saturday night show at the Morgan Theater in Grundy, Va. They would actually back us while Jack Miller, would sing.
But when it came to the Stanley Brothers sound and style, Carter was a purist and expected his band including brother Ralph, to toe the mark.
I had a lot of fun being around them back then. |
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Dave A. Burley
From:
Franklin, In. USA
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Posted 24 Apr 2011 8:05 am The Troubadours
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Being from Michigan we never heard of the Stanley Brothers on the west side of the state. They were never, to my recollection, part of any package shows that came through Grand Rapids promoted by Phil Simon and there were dozens of shows. The Troubadours were very well dressed. Then, again to my recollection, never wore their kerchiefs on the left side. Always on the right. If that is indeed Buddy Charleton I would sure like to know who the drummer was. Didn't Jack Greene play drums all those great Troubadour years until he went on his own? Carter Stanley died in 66 so that pic is before that time. After looking at the picture again, the bass player does resemble Buddy Charleton. Someone will know. If nothing else I will take the pic to Nashville next month and show it to Leon and find out.
Dave A. Burleyn
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Dave A. Burley
P.O. Box #211
Franklin, Ind. 46131
Buddy Emmons/Jimmy Bryant live $15.00 includes shipping.
It's The First Time(studio)$15.00 includes shipping.
Curley Chalker/Julian Tharpe live $15.00 includes shipping.
the Cavalcade Of Guitars live $16.00 includes shipping.
Pay by PayPal to: dab7875159@aol.com |
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Herb Steiner
From:
Spicewood TX 78669
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Posted 24 Apr 2011 11:10 am
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That drummer resembles Snuffy Miller a bit, though Snuffy played for Bill Anderson in those days. Could that be Bill Anderson's band with Weldon's pre-Emmons Sho~Bud up there?
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My rig: Infinity and Telonics.
Son, we live in a world with walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with steel guitars. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? |
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John Clark
From:
Arkansas, USA
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Posted 24 Apr 2011 4:58 pm troubadour picture
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| HERB DIDN'T HOOT BORDEN PLAY DRUMS FOR E.T. IN THE EARLY 60'S BEFORE HE STARTED DRIVING THE BUS? THAT DRUMMER KIND OF LOOKS LIKE HIM. JOHN CLARK. |
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David Nugent
From:
Gum Spring, Va.
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Posted 25 Apr 2011 4:04 am
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Would that picture of Buddy Charleton be from the late '70's? He appears to be sitting behind a 'Super Pro', judging by the guitar's smaller body, white fret markers, and absence of marquetry on the neck....Herb..Thank you for the information.
Last edited by David Nugent on 25 Apr 2011 12:38 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Herb Steiner
From:
Spicewood TX 78669
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Posted 25 Apr 2011 4:16 am
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That's not a Super Pro, David. It's an early 60's, cabinet end Permanent.
_________________
My rig: Infinity and Telonics.
Son, we live in a world with walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with steel guitars. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? |
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Reggie Duncan
From:
Mississippi
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David Thornhill
From:
Tennessee, USA
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Posted 26 Apr 2011 2:27 pm settled
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I will tell you about this photo. This was taken at
"THE FRONTEER RANCH" In Colunbus Ohio around 1966. That is my twin brother John Thornhill on bass, and Gary Shirk on Drums. We were the "COUNTRY PLAYBOYS"
We were the staff band there for 3 years. 3 years after this photo John and I both went to work for Loretta Lynn. John worked for her for 4 years and I worked for her 27 years. This was our band set-up. The sho-bud belonged to Gene Drake, our steel player. I have many pictures of our band taken at the Fronteer Ranch. John was killed in a plane crash in 1980. Gary Shirk still lives in Ohio. I still play with him sometimes. Gene Drake the steel player died many years ago. You can see John and I on you-tube on some of Loretta's old videos. Dave Thornhill |
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Bob Hempker
From:
Goodlettsville, TN.
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Posted 26 Apr 2011 6:21 pm
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Dave you nailed that one. I remember those days. I played there one season, 1968, with you and John. We all ended up with Loretta, eventually.
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Bob Hempker |
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Tracy Sheehan
From:
Fort Worth, Texas, USA
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Posted 26 Apr 2011 7:11 pm Re: troubadour picture
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| John Clark wrote: |
| HERB DIDN'T HOOT BORDEN PLAY DRUMS FOR E.T. IN THE EARLY 60'S BEFORE HE STARTED DRIVING THE BUS? THAT DRUMMER KIND OF LOOKS LIKE HIM. JOHN CLARK. |
Hoot was playing with the band Tommy Morrell was in in the early 60s at the state line bar on the Tx.N.M.border. I lost track of him after that. Hoot and i played in Altus Ok. back in the 50s when he was just getting in to drumming.I was still playing fiddle and just starting to get into steel. Small world huh?lol. I lived on the Tx side and Hoot on the Okla.side. Tracy |
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Alvin Blaine
From:
Picture Rocks, Arizona, USA
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Posted 26 Apr 2011 8:19 pm Re: settled
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| David Thornhill wrote: |
I will tell you about this photo. This was taken at
"THE FRONTEER RANCH" In Colunbus Ohio around 1966. That is my twin brother John Thornhill on bass, and Gary Shirk on Drums. We were the "COUNTRY PLAYBOYS"
We were the staff band there for 3 years. 3 years after this photo John and I both went to work for Loretta Lynn. John worked for her for 4 years and I worked for her 27 years. This was our band set-up. The sho-bud belonged to Gene Drake, our steel player. I have many pictures of our band taken at the Fronteer Ranch. John was killed in a plane crash in 1980. Gary Shirk still lives in Ohio. I still play with him sometimes. Gene Drake the steel player died many years ago. You can see John and I on you-tube on some of Loretta's old videos. Dave Thornhill |
Very Cool, and THANKS.
I was guessing Troubadours because of the Epiphone hanging on the twin behind George and the blonde Shobud, but then I'm sure there were more then one band using those guitars back then.
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David Thornhill
From:
Tennessee, USA
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Posted 27 Apr 2011 7:48 am stage set-up
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| Alvin, the set-up on stage in this photo was our band. John had a black fender bass amp, next to him Don Ballinger played over a black fender Tremolux amp. Gene Drake and I played over fender Super Reverb amps. That is my guitar hanging on the Super Reverb amp, and you can only see the neck. It was a gibson cherry red ES 345 stereo. which looked a lot like the Epiphone Sheridan that Leon played. Don's guitar in the photo was a gretsch "country gentleman" As you can see in the photo we wanted to be just like the "TROUBADOURS". Leon Rhodes is one of my best friends, for the last 40+ years. Buddy Charlton was a good friend also, we fished a lot together. I got to play with Buddy quite a bit when Ernest and Loretta toured together. I hope this clears the questions about the photo. Dave Thornhill |
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Dave Harmonson
From:
Seattle, Wa
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Owen Barnes
From:
Utopia, Texas, USA
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Posted 28 Apr 2011 2:36 am
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The only bass player of ET's that I know personally is Jr. Pruneda from around the Fredricksburg, TX area. But I don't thing Jr played with him quiten this early.
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Rains D-10 by Gary Carpenter |
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David Thornhill
From:
Tennessee, USA
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Posted 28 Apr 2011 8:11 am later
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Dave,read later post for info. Dave Thornhill
Last edited by David Thornhill on 28 Apr 2011 8:30 am; edited 2 times in total |
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David Thornhill
From:
Tennessee, USA
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Posted 28 Apr 2011 8:27 am Re: later
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| David Thornhill wrote: |
| Dave, this video was recorded a few months before I went to work for Loretta. That is Jack Moletie on lead, Jimmy Murphy on steel, Johnny Hines on bass and Larry Estes on Drums.Jimmy Murphy left Loretta in October 1969 and went with Ray Price. Jack left at the same time and moved back to Michigan. I took Jack's place. Johnny Hines left in January of 1970 and my brother John Thornhill took his place.There is an old video of Loretta and Conway on you-tube singing Mississippi woman- Louisiana Man "live". Here John and I along with Bob Hempker on steel can be seen.Ken Riley took Larry Estes's place on drums. Ken, Bob, and I stayed with Loretta for 25+ years. Dave Thornhill |
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Herb Steiner
From:
Spicewood TX 78669
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Posted 28 Apr 2011 8:35 am re: the Loretta video
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Just an semi-irrelevant comment, ...since Murph was a friend of mine..., is that Murphy doesn't look like he's having much fun up there, all business with a semi-scowl. He even keeps looking at Mollete in the first chorus like he's supposed to be playing fills and isn't. 
Or maybe he was looking at Jack's collar and tie being askew? 
_________________
My rig: Infinity and Telonics.
Son, we live in a world with walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with steel guitars. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? |
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Bob Hempker
From:
Goodlettsville, TN.
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Posted 3 May 2011 9:30 am
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What baffles me is the Stanley Bros., a hard-core bluegrass act, using a drummer.
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Bob Hempker |
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Alvin Blaine
From:
Picture Rocks, Arizona, USA
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Posted 4 May 2011 2:03 am
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I can't think of many first generation Bluegrass groups that didn't use drums. Starting with Monroe in '51, who was one of the first Opry members to record with drums. Reno & Smiley used drums, all of Jimmy Martins albums have drums, Jim & Jesse, 20 of Flatt & Scruggs 24 albums have drums, all the Osborne Brothers records have drums, the Stanley Brothers used drums, Mac Wiseman used drums. Drums have been used in Bluegrass for 60 years, they aren't a big part of it and are kind of taboo at festivals, but many have recorded with them and still do.
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Bill Cunningham
From:
Atlanta, Ga. USA
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Posted 4 May 2011 6:06 am
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When Alvin writes it's wise to read if want to learn.
I believe the notion that bluegrass must be only "THIS WAY" or "Bluegrass As Religion" (No electrics, no drums, no new songs, etc)came into being in the early to mid-60's as it became very popular as part of the folk music boom. Prior to that it was just another variant in country music sounds sorta like a 4/4 shuffle is.
Some would argue Bluegrass as a genre was not even defined until the 1960's. As Monroe, F&S, etc became more popular because of the folk boom, they had to call it something so Bluegrass was borrowed from Monroe and defined to not have drums or electric instruments and The Osbornes and Jim and Jesse were forevermore scorned. 
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Bill Cunningham
Atlanta, GA |
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