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Topic: Fender Deluxe 6 and 8 info wanted |
John Groover McDuffie
From:
LA California, USA
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Posted 30 Dec 2010 5:53 pm |
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I think I have read on a thread here that Fender only made the Deluxe 6 and Deluxe 8 in short scale. Is that true? Did they make any single neck non-pedal steels in longer scale that 22 1/2"
And does the Deluxe 6/8 model always have the two pickups, or did they use that model designation for guitars with the trapezoid pickup? |
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Chris Battis
From:
Reno, Nevada, USA
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Posted 30 Dec 2010 6:46 pm
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Fender's model designations and changes were sometimes confusing. Like the Stringmaster, the Fender Deluxe 6 & 8's were produced in three scale lengths; 22 1/2", 24 1/2" and 26" and to the best of my knowledge the long scale variation is only found on the earliest examples with the trapezoid pickup.
According to Gruhn, by 1955 the short scale was standard and the 24 1/2" was optional, but toward the end of production in the late 70's the short scale was discontinued.
You can easily ID the scale length on Deluxes and Stringmasters because the short scale models have two dots after the 24th fret, the 24 1/2" have three dots and the 26" has four dots.
Now I'm confused...
Chris
_________________
Fender Deluxe 6, Supro Supreme, Pogreba Weissenborn |
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Mitch Crane
From:
1000 Oaks, CA
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Posted 30 Dec 2010 6:58 pm
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I have not come across a single neck long scale "Deluxe 6 or 8"... maybe they exist, but I've never seen one for sale or adverstised anywhere.
There's the "Studio Deluxe" which is basically a champ (single pup) with legs...and the "Deluxe 6 / 8", 2 pups and legs (ala "stringmaster" configuration) both short scale.
I'm sure much more persons "in the know" will chime in here. |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Brad Bechtel
From:
San Francisco, CA
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Posted 30 Dec 2010 7:41 pm
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Here's the Google Books result for the Gruhn's Guide to Vintage Guitars page on this topic:
http://tinyurl.com/29fdrtg
I have not seen any of the earlier Deluxe 6 or 8 steels (with trapezoid or rectangular string-thru pickups) with a longer scale than 22.5". I have seen longer scale Stringmaster-style Deluxe 6 and 8 steels, but not the earlier (pre 1957) models.
_________________
Brad’s Page of Steel
A web site devoted to acoustic & electric lap steel guitars |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Posted 30 Dec 2010 11:58 pm
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Same here, Brad. All of the older style Deluxes I've seen were short scale.
I wish Fender had changed the model name of their single-8 when they switched over the newer style (2 pickups, string-over). The term "Deluxe-8" does not tell us which style it is... and the two versions are quite different.
Vintage guitar dealers are rewriting history. Vintage Guitar Magazine now lists the Deluxe 8 as the "Deluxe 8/Stringmaster Single Steel 1950-1981"
They also list the "Deluxe 6/Stringmaster Single Steel 1950-1981"
Music stores, vintage dealers, etc. now advertise Deluxe 8 Stringmasters. The change is now complete. History has been rewritten, and we now have a Single neck Stringmaster. Below is one of three such ads on line now. 
_________________
My Site / My YouTube Channel
25 Songs C6 Lap Steel / 25 MORE Songs C6 Lap Steel / 16 Songs, C6, A6, B11 / 60 Popular Melodies E9 Pedal Steel |
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John Groover McDuffie
From:
LA California, USA
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Posted 31 Dec 2010 1:05 am
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| Please clarify: Is it possible that there are some 24 1/2" scale, string-over, two-pickups single necks out there? Whatever they are called? |
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Mitch Crane
From:
1000 Oaks, CA
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Posted 31 Dec 2010 7:42 am
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| I still believe that all the (new name) Single neck Deluxe 6 or 8 "Stringmasters" are 22 1/2" scale. |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Posted 31 Dec 2010 7:52 am
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| Quote: |
| Is it possible that there are some 24 1/2" scale, string-over, two-pickups single necks out there? |
I don't know, but I doubt it. Every Deluxe 8 I have ever seen is short scale (22 1/2"). The reference books I have make no mention of scale length for this model. The one in the picture above is 22 1/2". You can tell by the fretboard. Two fret markers after the 24th fret indicate 22 1/2" scale length.
2 "dots" past the 24th fret = 22 1/2" scale
3 "dots" past the 24th fret = 24 1/2" scale
4 "dots" past the 24th fret = 26" scale
| Quote: |
| Whatever they are called? |
Deluxe 8.
There were two versions of the Deluxe 8 (and other Fender models). The earlier version was from about 1947 until about 1953 or 54. The later version from about 1954-55 on. Both versions were called the Deluxe 8. There was also a Deluxe 6.
Stringmasters are multineck guitars, either double, triple, or quad. There is no such thing as a single neck Stringmaster. The misnomer has delevoped because the later version of the Deluxe 8 (shown above) has Stringmaster features. Sellers and owners today use the term "Deluxe Stringmaster" to indicate the later version of the Deluxe, not the earlier version, which was a different design. So these are are now sold as Single neck Stringmasters. It's like politics. If a lie is repeated often enough... it becomes the Truth! 
_________________
My Site / My YouTube Channel
25 Songs C6 Lap Steel / 25 MORE Songs C6 Lap Steel / 16 Songs, C6, A6, B11 / 60 Popular Melodies E9 Pedal Steel |
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Mitch Crane
From:
1000 Oaks, CA
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Posted 31 Dec 2010 8:06 am
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Short scale Stringmaster D8:
Long scale Stringmaster D8:
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Michael Lee Allen
From:
Portage Park / Irving Park, Chicago, Illinois
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Posted 31 Dec 2010 8:13 am
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Removed.
_________________
"Wisdom does not always come with age. Many times age arrives alone."
Last edited by Michael Lee Allen on 24 Feb 2011 6:50 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Posted 31 Dec 2010 8:47 am
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| Quote: |
ALL FACTORY Fender Stringmasters are multi-neck guitars with eight strings per neck...
A double-neck with six strings per neck and 22.5" scale was made with Stringmaster features, in the catalogs and price lists it is called the "Dual Six Steel Guitar". |
Wow... I didn't know that. So George Gruhn is wrong when he says in his book the Stringmaster came in "6-string necks optional". And Vintage Guitar Magazine says the same thing. Maybe they should have read the original catalogs more closely! I always assumed that there was a 6-string Stringmaster because it looks exactly like a Stringmaster in every way except the number of strings. I guess we'll have to defer to the Fender catalogs. It's hard to argue with that.
| Quote: |
| There are NO long or medium scale single neck Fender steels from the FACTORY that were ever cataloged, listed, or available to the general public at retail stores. |
...in the earlier version of the Fender steels.
All good info Michael, and much appreciated. Your source material is original catalogs and price lists, and that's as good as it gets. Unfortunately there is a lot of revisionism going on today. And the more it is repeated, especially by guitar "experts", the more it is accepted as truth.
_________________
My Site / My YouTube Channel
25 Songs C6 Lap Steel / 25 MORE Songs C6 Lap Steel / 16 Songs, C6, A6, B11 / 60 Popular Melodies E9 Pedal Steel |
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Michael Lee Allen
From:
Portage Park / Irving Park, Chicago, Illinois
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Posted 31 Dec 2010 9:12 am
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Removed.
_________________
"Wisdom does not always come with age. Many times age arrives alone."
Last edited by Michael Lee Allen on 24 Feb 2011 6:51 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Michael Lee Allen
From:
Portage Park / Irving Park, Chicago, Illinois
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Posted 31 Dec 2010 9:13 am
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Removed.
_________________
"Wisdom does not always come with age. Many times age arrives alone."
Last edited by Michael Lee Allen on 24 Feb 2011 6:52 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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John Groover McDuffie
From:
LA California, USA
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Posted 31 Dec 2010 10:44 am
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Thanks everyone. Big thanks for the catalog images, MLA! I think that clears up the scale length question, for me at least.
Here's a question about sound: With the two "string over" pickups it looks to me like these steel guitars might be somewhat Strat-ish tone and output, compared to the string-through models and/or compared to a PSG with their (usually) hotter-wound pickups. So if you set an amps controls for a Strat or Tele and then plugged in one of these steels it would be in the right ballpark.
Yes or no? |
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Michael Lee Allen
From:
Portage Park / Irving Park, Chicago, Illinois
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Posted 31 Dec 2010 1:30 pm
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Removed.
_________________
"Wisdom does not always come with age. Many times age arrives alone."
Last edited by Michael Lee Allen on 24 Feb 2011 6:54 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Michael Lee Allen
From:
Portage Park / Irving Park, Chicago, Illinois
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Posted 31 Dec 2010 1:32 pm
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Removed.
_________________
"Wisdom does not always come with age. Many times age arrives alone."
Last edited by Michael Lee Allen on 24 Feb 2011 6:55 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Michael Lee Allen
From:
Portage Park / Irving Park, Chicago, Illinois
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Posted 31 Dec 2010 1:36 pm
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Removed.
_________________
"Wisdom does not always come with age. Many times age arrives alone."
Last edited by Michael Lee Allen on 24 Feb 2011 6:56 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Michael Lee Allen
From:
Portage Park / Irving Park, Chicago, Illinois
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Posted 31 Dec 2010 1:38 pm
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Removed.
_________________
"Wisdom does not always come with age. Many times age arrives alone."
Last edited by Michael Lee Allen on 24 Feb 2011 6:57 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Michael Lee Allen
From:
Portage Park / Irving Park, Chicago, Illinois
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Posted 31 Dec 2010 1:41 pm
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Removed.
_________________
"Wisdom does not always come with age. Many times age arrives alone."
Last edited by Michael Lee Allen on 24 Feb 2011 6:58 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Michael Lee Allen
From:
Portage Park / Irving Park, Chicago, Illinois
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Posted 31 Dec 2010 1:43 pm
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Removed.
_________________
"Wisdom does not always come with age. Many times age arrives alone."
Last edited by Michael Lee Allen on 24 Feb 2011 6:59 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Michael Lee Allen
From:
Portage Park / Irving Park, Chicago, Illinois
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Posted 31 Dec 2010 1:46 pm
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Removed.
_________________
"Wisdom does not always come with age. Many times age arrives alone."
Last edited by Michael Lee Allen on 24 Feb 2011 7:00 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Michael Lee Allen
From:
Portage Park / Irving Park, Chicago, Illinois
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Posted 31 Dec 2010 1:47 pm
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Removed.
_________________
"Wisdom does not always come with age. Many times age arrives alone."
Last edited by Michael Lee Allen on 24 Feb 2011 7:00 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Doug Freeman
From:
Los Angeles, CA
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Posted 31 Dec 2010 1:50 pm
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| John Groover McDuffie wrote: |
Here's a question about sound: With the two "string over" pickups it looks to me like these steel guitars might be somewhat Strat-ish tone and output, compared to the string-through models and/or compared to a PSG with their (usually) hotter-wound pickups. So if you set an amps controls for a Strat or Tele and then plugged in one of these steels it would be in the right ballpark.
Yes or no? |
John, I don't think you can expect an amp dialed in the way you like it for a Strat or Tele to sound the same with a Deluxe 6 or 8. I don't have a lot of experience with these guitars, only the '59 Deluxe 8 I bought from Chris Battis here a few months ago. I've found that guitar, regardless of the pickup blend, to be very big and rich sounding. I don't know if it's the pickups or the body construction but to me it sounds like a longer scale instrument (very similar in fact to the Magnatone G-65 I play a lot). In any event, it sounds bigger than a stock single coil Strat or Tele. Hit me up sometime and we can check them out.
Cheers,
Doug |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Posted 31 Dec 2010 1:51 pm
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| Quote: |
| With the two "string over" pickups it looks to me like these steel guitars might be somewhat Strat-ish tone and output |
Yes, the Stringmaster has a "Strat-like" tone, in my opinion. When the two PUs are blended it can produce a somewhat "out of phase" tone. I think the bridge PU is always active and the blend control mixes in the neck PU. It could be that the PUs are reverse polarity, but I'm not sure about that. I do know that nothing sounds like a Stringmaster! To hear how one sounds click on my link below for Christmas Island... Happy New Year!
_________________
My Site / My YouTube Channel
25 Songs C6 Lap Steel / 25 MORE Songs C6 Lap Steel / 16 Songs, C6, A6, B11 / 60 Popular Melodies E9 Pedal Steel |
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