The Steel Guitar Forum

Ray Montee · From: Portland, OR, USA

In the olden days........prior to 1980, some of the earliest pro players would play thro' amps that were sitting on the floor. I have pix of Billy Robinson doing so, as did Speedy West, Lloyd Green and countless others. JERRY BYRD did so on stage at his Hawaiian performances right to the end. I know that in the past he has stated he used to "RECORD" by placing his amp on a chair which in turn was miked.

In contrast, all the bands that came thro' this area would sit their amps on chairs, tilted back so that the sound was aimed skyward at about a 45 degree angle.

I have always placed mine on a chair as described above. WHAT HAS BEEN YOUR PRACTICE?
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Billy Tonnesen · From: Buena Park, California

To my Ear the type of floor you set your Amp on made a difference in sound. In some of the older Lodges if it was a high stage with a substanial wooden flooring, it served as an additional sounding board for the Amp. Set the Amp on Concrete floor and it changed the sound and projection of the Amp.
Depending on the acoustics of the place I was playing in, I would sometimes set my Amp on the Stage Floor, a Concrete and Tile Floor, on a tilt back Amp Stand, on a Chair, etc. When you play Casuals you and the Band have to adjust for the Acoustics of the Place. Wherever the gig was, I always located the Amp to the side and back of me and preferred it be at Ear level when possible.

Olli Haavisto · From: Jarvenpaa,Finland

Ray McCarthy · From: New Hampshire, USA

I've tried it on the floor, on a chair, a stand--behind me, beside me, etc. Lately I've been putting the amp (NV-112) almost directly behind me, about 4 ft back, with a 2" block of wood under the front to tilt it back. This seems to work the best for me so far.

Clete Ritta · From: San Antonio, Texas, USA

Ray,

I usually put my NV 1000 on top of its road case and position it behind me pointing across the stage, similar to Billy's response.

Larry Bell · From: Englewood, Florida

It's not the same now as it was in the 50s - 70s.

At that time your amp was ALL YOU HAD. That's why the Twin (and shortly thereafter, the Marshall) was the amp of the era. It HAD TO BE LOUD -- especially for a very large venue or outside performance.

Nowadays, folks are getting by with much smaller gear*. A Nvl112 works fine as a stage monitor, which is all you need if all your sound reinforcement is coming from a large PA system. All you have to hear is YOU, with the other instruments and vocals coming through stage monitors (spkrs or in-ear).

There is no perfect place for an amp. If you are miced, anywhere you can hear it works great. I personally prefer it beside me, straight at my ears. That way it doesn't shoot straight into the vocal mics. Many soundmen prefer that approach.

Just lately I've been using Ken Fox's great new steel amp. I also have an external 12" speaker cab and really like to surround myself -- amp behind and external spkr beside me -- although sometimes I've heard myself TOO WELL and the sound man would ask if I was playing at a lower volume than usual.

Amp on the floor works well if you're having a problem getting good bass response. There is an 'acoustic coupling effect' that can use the floor and wall to give you more low frequency response. I just don't like my amp that low to the ground, but it's just personal preference.

In a smaller club with no sound reinforcement other than your guitar amp, I prefer the amp off the floor, either on a chair or amp stand -- once again -- pointed straight at my ears. That way, I hear myself (CRITICAL to playing well) and my amp is positioned to provide sound to the room as well as to ME. I do not like for my amp to be pointed at the back of my legs -- you filter out a lot of the highs. If on the floor it MUST be tilted back but I'm personally not fond of that solution.

*It is noteworthy that many guitar players haven't yet gotten the memo. Shocked

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Jim Lindsey · From: Arlington TX USA

They say a picture speaks louder than words, so here is a shot of my preferred way to place my amps ...

I don't know how well you can see the little amp stands I had in this photo, but when I was using them in the early '90s this was the amp placement that worked the best for me. The effects rack lid taped to the back of one of my amps kept the "back wash" from antagonizing the drummer's ears (although I'm actually a pretty quiet player by nature).

I wish I still had those little stands or could find another set just like them. While touring with Ty Herndon, somehow they didn't make it on the bus or with the rest of the equipment during load out one night and I never saw them again.

Currently, when running my amps on hard wood floors I set them right down on the floor; otherwise, I usually place each one on a milk crate.
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Brad Sarno · From: St. Louis, MO USA

Whatever you do, never, never, never, never, ever aim the "beam" from the voice coil directly at your ears. Not only will you get a weird tone as you try to EQ from that perspective, but you'll likely do horrible damage to your hearing. Part of the amp-on-the-floor thing was that it gave a nice, off-axis perspective of the speaker's tone radiation. The "beam" is deadly and is NOT where the tone lives. If you raise the amp or tilt the amp, keep this in mind. Aim the beam anywhere but at your head. And preferably not at the soundman if you want to actually be in the mix. A beam pointed at a soundman is the quickest way to get your channel muted.

B

Dan Beller-McKenna · From: Durham, New Hampshire, USA

Re Brad's comment, I wonder if this is why the Session 400 (i.e., a single speaker amp) that I've been trying lately seems so much more "directional" than my twin (2x12). Indeed, when EQing the Session, I find that I have to point it away from me to get any sense of how it actually sounds, whereas with the twin there is much less difference if it is pointing at me or not.
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George Kimery · From: Limestone, TN, USA

I have placed my amp on an amp stand behind me and to my right a bit, and in the lowest positon for several years now, but I am re-thiking the whole thing for several reasons. Amp stands are made for guitar players, not steel players. So when a guitar player is standing up, the sound will be hitting him in the rear end and/or back. As a steel player, it will be hitting us in the back of the head. If we lower our amps to the floor, but do a tilt back, we are in the same relative position to the amp as a guitarist is standing.

I have been micing my amp for a long time for the simple reason that I did not want to blow my head off playing the volume of the rest of the band since I am sitting with the amp at my head. Also, I felt that you would get a "bigger" sound running through the mains. My thinking has changed now. I think if the audience can hear your amp and the mains, you will have a problem with delayed sounds, unless you have a delay unit on the mains to try to sych them to the amp. The audience will first hear the mains, because they are closer to them, followed by the amp sound. The further the amp and the mains are from each other, the worse the problem. And if the room is a live room and bad acoustics to begin with, then you are compounding the problem with multiple sound sources. A large venue where all the sound, to speak of, is coming through the hugh PA mains, then you don't have the problem.

Most of the stages I work are small, so you can be 3 ft. from your amp. We do not have a soundman, so it was always a guess as to how the sound was through the PA. I run the fiddle, the steel, and the lead guitar through the mains, as well as the back monitors for the drummer and bass player. The drums and bass are not miced.

In the "old" days, it was the "in" thing to do to use those cool Fender amps on the floor with the tiltback legs. As steel players, we may have made a mistake getting away from that.

Two weeks ago, the gig was in a concrete block Ruritan Building with pretty bad acoustics, I noticed that I did not like what I was hearing. I was hearing my amp and the PA speakers and getting a delayed and muddied sound. I cut myself out of the mains, and it sounded 100% better, then I cut my reverb down to 2 and the lead player did so as well because there was just so much room reverb already. I took the fiddle and the lead guitar out of the mains also. This really made a difference. With that live room, we were just getting too many echoes and reflections with amps and mains.The back stage wall was paneling, so it was very lively as well, plus a concrete floor and no acoustical ceiling tile (ever played in a cave) The sound of the amp, plus, the mains, were just fighting each other and creating 3 sound sources in a very live room. We played two bad sounding sets until we made changes and finally got a very decent sound the last set.

Our next gig was in an old high school auditorium that we have been doing monthly shows in for over 3 years. Pretty good acoustics in it, but we tried the same thing. No micing. We got more compliments about how great we sounded than ever before. My girlfriend goes to all our gigs and is a musician and she said we sounded better not micing and that the mix was good. Which brings up another topic for discussion: If you are not micing anything and the mix sounds right to you on stage does it also sound right to the audience (not counting Vocals, of course)?

And one more thing (will this guy never shut up!) Since the general rule for aiming PA speakers is to point towards the center of the back wall, should all the amps be angled likewise? Just to get every speaker aimed at the same place. This would also help to hear amps on the other side of the stage, but would also aim them more towards the vocal mics. I can't see that vocal mics would be a big problem unless they were "open" and only being used occasionaly.

If there is anybody left still reading this novel I have written, thank you. You probably have more patience than I do. Anyway, to make a long story short, which is impossible by now, I am going to try the amp on the floor and tilted back this coming Saturday night.

PS: Whoever was asking about short amp stands, I know they are still available. My friend, Bobby Loveday, had two at the Steel Jam Saturday for this two 112's and said he had just got them recently. I can find out where if anybody is really interested. Bobby is not on line and doesn't even own (or want) a comuter.

Rich Hlaves · From: Wildomar, California, USA

Since my ears are on my head and not on my knees I place my amp on its tilt legs for small stages. On larger stages with more room I use an amp stand with less tilt as I'm further away from it.

In either case the amps is slightly off center to me to avoid the beam effect. I like to mic my amp and other instruments even in small venues just to have some in the monitors.
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Dom Franco · From: Beaverton, OR, 97007

I have noticed the placement of my amp (speakers) has an enormous effect on how loud I play. If it's right in my ears I play too softly and I am asked to turn up. If the amp is off to the side or pointed at my feet, I am "too loud"

Since I use a volume pedal I constantly subconsiously adjust my level to what I think is a good mix with the rest of the band.

A small change in my speaker placement makes all the difference in the world.

Dom Mr. Green

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CrowBear Schmitt · From: Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France

i usually have my amp on the floor behind me to one side & tilted
Jean Yves Lozach lays his amp almost on it's back so that the sound goes up toward the ceiling - in that way he can crank it up
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Paddy Long · From: Christchurch, New Zealand

I normally sit the amp, or my stereo speakers on top of my guitar road case (laying flat) and stick a block of wood under the front to tilt it slightly. I carry 2 small blocks as reinforcement spacers in the leg/pedal bar space in the case and they work great under the front of the amp. Does the job for me.
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Bob Vantine · From: Etna,New York, USA

JIM LINDSEY.....
Check out Ernie Cawbys amp stands.....look similar to your lost ones .

****Bob V****
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Chris Walke · From: St Charles, IL

I play lead guitar and lap steel in rock & pop bands, using only one rig. Some clean-ish tones, some gritty tones. Unless the room is very small, I mic my amp.

I put my amp on the floor, tilted up, usually off to my side. On many occasions, I have placed my amp on the floor next to the monitor wedge in front of me, back of the amp toward the room, front toward me. This allows me to use small (& lightweight) 15watt amp and push it to a fat volume without it being too loud. I'd rather a soundman tells me to turn up rather than to turn down, and my amp placements usually allow me to hear myself very well without upsetting the stage mix or the house mix.
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***WARNING: the above commentary is probably Chris' OPINION, and therefore, he thinks he's right.

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