National New Yorker Restoration

Danny James · From: Summerfield Florida USA

Alan, I hear so much about how good these New Yorkers sound.

What can you tell us about the construction of the pickups on these, the size and shape of the bobbin, Gauge of p.u. wire they used, and the ohms of resistance. Question

I have built my own pickup winding machine, and have successfully wound a few pickups. I'm still trying to learn all I can about them. Idea

Thanks & Merry Christmas to all

Charley Wilder · From: Dover, New Hampshire, USA

Alan, I'm watching this thread as I have your other restoration projects. It's great to see these great old instruments brought back to life!
Charley

Alan Brookes · From: Brummy living in Southern California

Danny James · From: Summerfield Florida USA

For sure it is a string through pick up. Whether it is a Supro or non Supro type I'm not sure. I think the Supro type had two bobbins & coils. I believe both had magnets on each end which also magnetized the top and bottom plates to equalize the pull on the strings. I understand that thinking was to increase sustain. Whether it actually did is questionable according to an experiment I saw that Rick Aiello had done.

I would like to see a picture of the patent drawings, but haven't had any luck on the internet so far with that.

I have been watching this thread from the biginning. I know if anyone cane make a good player out of this New Yorker you are the man who can do it.

Alan Brookes · From: Brummy living in Southern California

Yes, Danny, it has string-through-pickup, and there are two magnets one each side. As you can see from the following photograph, the baseplate has to be completely made anew, and it's going to be interesting to see if I can do that without damaging the pickup. Everything is well rusted up. Sad

I'm not impressed with the simple bent metal that National used for the bridge, so I may come up with another idea. Likewise, I may use a different pickup.

Although it looks black and white, the plastic parts are white, with the black sprayed on. So I glued the broken parts back together with Super Glue. (There was some crumbling on the original, but it's in an area which will be covered up by the cover plate.) Then I scraped the surface of the white parts with Xacto knives, removing all the stains. Afterwards I sanded both the white and black.

Then I masked off the white and stuck the parts down to cardboard.

Next I resprayed the black part. I also resprayed the machine head cover plate, as you can see. The National logo (which is a separate piece of metal), cleaned up well. It's not stuck to the cover plate: I just placed it there for reference. Eventually it will be pinned down, using the original pinholes.

Tomorrow I shall remove the masking tape, mask off the black, and work on the white parts.

(I'm also rebuilding a lute at the same time. I work on one instrument while the other one has paint or glue drying.) Very Happy

Danny James · From: Summerfield Florida USA

Alan Brookes · From: Brummy living in Southern California

I'll check that this morning. Danny, I'd appreciate if you could edit your response and remove the duplicate photos, as they make for a lot of scrolling down.
Thanks, Alan. Very Happy

Danny James · From: Summerfield Florida USA

Actually I did try to edit the post and meant to only reply to a quote. Unfortunately company came in and I got in a hurry and hit submit before I meant to.

Then the more I tried to straighten it out, the worse it got. Sorry ! Embarassed

Alan Brookes · From: Brummy living in Southern California

Danny, I went over the pickup with an Ohmmeter, but it's dead as a dodo.

This may seem heresy, but it doesn't bother me to replace the pickup with a different type. I'm not enthralled with the pickup in the other New Yorker, but I wouldn't replace that one because it's in immaculate condition and I want to keep it original.

I cleaned up the switchplate...

I have to figure out some way of dropping white paint into the indentations. I have the same problem with the fingerboard. Too much gets in, then you wipe it off with tissue and it takes all of the white off.

Here's where I am with the body...

Richard Sevigny · From: Salmon Arm, BC, Canada

Alan,

Jason Lollar makes a replacement string through p'up if you're so inclined. (Just scoll down the page, it's at the bottom)
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Alan Brookes · From: Brummy living in Southern California

Thanks Richard. That's good to know.

Jonathan Lam · From: Brooklyn, NY

Could you apply with a syringe of some sort? To get into the indentations?

Danny James · From: Summerfield Florida USA

Alan I used to get paint ballpoint pens at the hobby / craft section at Wal-Mart. I used them to make the frets on my lap steel that I made the changer for.

That might be good for painting the letter indentations on your New Yorker.

David Venzke · From: SE Michigan, USA

Alan, To fill the indentations you need something other than paint -- it is too thin. You want something that is pasty -- think "clay-like", very thick -- something that can be kneaded into the "grooves" and then you wipe the surface clean while leaving the "filler" in place. Then seal with several clear coats.

Alan Brookes · From: Brummy living in Southern California

Yes David, that's what I've been thinking. Something like spackling or plumber's putty, but I can't sand it down or it would sand off the black.

David Venzke · From: SE Michigan, USA

Maybe a Latex-based painter's caulk in bright white. If it's a little too thin, add just a little corn starch (a nice white filler) to stiffen it up. Work it in with your thumbs. Wipe off the top gently, and don't worry about leaving a thin film on it. Let it set for a day or two to "harden" then buff the top to clean up the black before putting on the sealer. That might work ...

Tom Pettingill · From: California, USA (deceased)

A very fine artist brush and some sign painters enamel might do the trick. Maybe even something like a rubber squeegee and silk screen ink.
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Alan Brookes · From: Brummy living in Southern California

I wonder how they did it in the factory.

Rich Hlaves · From: Wildomar, California, USA

Looking at my New Yorker (1947), the fretboard looks to be finished matt black with a baked enamel. The fret markers & lines actually do appear to be a paint of some type, with a very high pigment content. It looks like they did the black first. In places were I have a little wear on colored fret markers, I'd swear they are white under the color. Were the light blue is a little thin, it turns lighter not darker. Same with the red.

To me it looks like they did everthing indented white first then went back and filled the fret markers with color. With a baked finish they could use a light solvent for clean up and not damage the black.

Just my thoughts on how it was done originally.

RH

Joshua Grange · From: Los Angeles, California

I've used white crayon in the past with success.....

Recluse · From: Cleveland, Ohio, USA

Beautiful work.

They use a product called Lacquer-Stiks for filling the script on golf clubs. Works very well and easily. Lasts a long time. Cheap. Available at Golfworks(dot)com

Steve Bailey

Alan Brookes · From: Brummy living in Southern California

Steve: I'll check out that Golfworks.com website.

As can be seen, the pickup and string-retaining plate is too far gone, and in any case I can't bring myself to just use a bent piece of metal for the bridge. It's one of National's most tacky features.
So I made a cardboard template, which I shall have cut out on our laser machine.

Here's how it will fit on the guitar. Because the original screws were rusted in I had to cut them off, so the new screw-holes are in a slightly different location.
The bolts which take the pickup cover are still covered in masking tape from when I resprayed the black.

Ray Shakeshaft · From: Kidderminster, Worcs, UK.

How about white oil pastels or stick? They are soft and the excess would wipe off easily. I have tried black oil stick (available from any shop that sells oil paints) on a white perspex fretboard and it works fine. It dries like oil paint.

Alan Brookes · From: Brummy living in Southern California

Here's the replacement pickup cover, machined on our laser centre...

There's no provision for a bridge, because I don't like bent metal bridges. The screw holes are slightly lower, because I had to remove the old, rusted screws with a hacksaw. Here's how a standard humbucking pickup fits...

The lugs will go under the plate. With standard spacing I can swap pickups easily. I rejected the idea of having a replica National pickup made because I simply can't afford to spend $300 on an instrument I bought for $66, and I already have an immaculate New Yorker. At any time in the future a string-through-magnet pickup could be substituted with little difficulty.

Alan Brookes · From: Brummy living in Southern California

The restoration continues. I took a break for a while while I visited friends in England.

Here's where we are right now...

I replaced all the pins holding the fingerboard down with screws. Screws are much easier to remove if you need to work on the fingerboard.

It's almost complete. I've deviated from the traditional New Yorker by fitting a humbucker pickup and a polarity-reversal switch. All that's left now is to build a nut and a bridge and find some way to paint the frets. The original New Yorker had a string-retainer plate with a built-in bridge, which, in my opinion, was a design error.

The pad area at the back I covered with the sort of vinyl used for speaker cases.

At some stage I also need to build a pickup cover, but that's just cosmetic.

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