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Topic: A to Ab change on C6 |
Nathan Golub
From:
Durham, NC
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 Posted 23 Oct 2009 6:55 am |
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On the C6 neck of my Emmons, the RKL lowers the 4th string A to an Ab. There's currently no pedal or knee lever to raise it to Bb, which would seem more useful. Right now the only thing I've figured to do with the change is to get an augmented chord or a minor of the 4 chord from the no-pedals position. What are some common uses of this change? Would there be benefits to having this instead of raising the string to Bb?
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'75 Emmons D10, Hilton VP, NV112, 70's Twin
www.myspace.com/rosewoodbluff |
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CrowBear Schmitt
From:
Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France
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| Posted 23 Oct 2009 9:48 am |
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the A to Bb change is much more useful than the A to Ab change Nathan
( i have both)
in conjunction w: P6 you get an 11 chord &/or a minor chord
w: no pedals you get a dom 7
where as A to Ab w: P6 (or just w: C to B lever on string 3) will give you a minor 7 chord
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Steel what? |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, California, USA
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| Posted 23 Oct 2009 9:50 am |
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I use the A to Bb raise a lot more than the A to Ab lower. I had to pick one or the other for my new S-8 copedent. For me it was a no-brainer. The lower to Ab is handy now and then, but the raise to Bb is almost a necessity.
It's a little bit tricky to set up on an Emmons push-pull, though. That might be why it's not there on your guitar.
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©Bobby Lee, a.k.a. -b0b- | MySpace | Twitter | FaceBook | Blog | email: Quasar@b0b.com
playing Desert Rose, Williams, Sierra, Fender & Rickenbacker steel guitars through Mesa/Boogie & Webb amps |
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Nathan Golub
From:
Durham, NC
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| Posted 23 Oct 2009 10:06 am |
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Yeah, I'm just getting in to C6, and it makes much more sense to have the A to Bb change than A to Ab. It seems odd to me that this guitar was set up with the A-Ab, instead of A-Bb, so I was wondering if there was an advantage to the change that I'm not seeing, especially since I'm new to C6.
That being said, I'm probably not going to get the change switched to A-Bb any time soon. I don't feel comfortable messing around with the p/p changer myself, and since I'm not too far into C6 right now it doesn't seem very necessary. I'm comfortable adapting to different copedents if I get it changed down the road, and for now I can learn a lot without the A-Bb change.
With that in mind, are there some cool uses for the A-Ab change that I can mess around with? The beginner C6 material I've found doesn't go into that change, but since I have it I'd like to start using it.
_________________
'75 Emmons D10, Hilton VP, NV112, 70's Twin
www.myspace.com/rosewoodbluff |
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Nathan Golub
From:
Durham, NC
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| Posted 23 Oct 2009 10:08 am |
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Crowbear, just saw the change you posted, I'll try that out. Unfortunately my C-B change is on the RKR, so I can't use it with my RKL A-Ab. But I will try it with P6. Thanks!
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'75 Emmons D10, Hilton VP, NV112, 70's Twin
www.myspace.com/rosewoodbluff |
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Greg Cutshaw
From:
Corry, PA, USA
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| Posted 23 Oct 2009 10:12 am |
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My most used knee levers on C6th, most used listed at top:
C to C# (strings 3 and 7)
A to Bb
D to D# (emulates the F# to G on E9th)
E to F (6th string)
C to B (3rd string)
A to Ab
http://www.gregcutshaw.com/Msa/Copedant.html
Greg |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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| Posted 23 Oct 2009 10:13 am |
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Nathan, do you know how to use a 3-6-2-5 turnaround? If so, here's one I love that has a nice descending movement to it (example in Bb, and I'll call it the 'Ab lever'):
Dm9, G7b5, Cm9, F7b5, BbMaj7
9th fret w/pedal 6 and Ab lever (root on 9th string)
8th fret w/pedals 5 & 6
7th fret w/pedal 6 and Ab lever (root on 9th string)
6th fret w/pedals 5 & 6
5th fret open (root on 9th string)= BbMaj7
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www.JimCohen.com
www.SteelGuitarJazz.com
www.BeatsWalkin.com |
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Nathan Golub
From:
Durham, NC
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| Posted 23 Oct 2009 10:20 am |
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Nice, looking forward to trying that one out. Thanks Jim!
_________________
'75 Emmons D10, Hilton VP, NV112, 70's Twin
www.myspace.com/rosewoodbluff |
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J D Sauser
From:
Puerto Plata, Dominican Republic.
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| Posted 23 Oct 2009 5:15 pm |
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Compared to E9th, the C6th A-to-Bb raise is the same as your "B"-pedal G#-to-A raise with the E-to-Eb-lower lever engaged. It also works the same with your C6th pedal which turns the neck into a IV7th as when using your "B" pedal on E9th with your 9th string (D).
... J-D. |
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Rick Schmidt
From:
Carlsbad, CA. USA
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| Posted 23 Oct 2009 9:39 pm |
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At fret 4 --- pedal 6, A-Ab KL, strings 8,7,6,5,4 and 3 is a great close voiced Cmaj7.
Same fret---add pedal 5 to changes above and its a great C7 (add string 2 to that for a 13th)
Open w/ pedal 5 and A-Ab Kl is a cool D9b5
I love the Fmin9 at the open fret with pedal 6 and the A-Ab KL!
By the way...I personally like having the A-Ab and the A-Bb KL's on different knees much in the same way as I like the E9 E raises and lowers on different knees. |
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CrowBear Schmitt
From:
Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France
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| Posted 24 Oct 2009 2:08 am |
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having the G to F lower on string 5 is a + w: P6 & A to Ab
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Steel what? |
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Ferdinando Ghidelli
From:
Italy
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| Posted 24 Oct 2009 4:06 am |
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if 4th and 8th strings lowers from A to Ab, at fret 4 --- pedal 6, A-Ab KL, strings 8,7,6,5 the same chord at fret 11 adding p7, strings 6,5,4,3.
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Zum D10, 9+8. Excel SD 10, 4+5, Mullen S10 C6, 6+5. Peavey Nashville 112,Goodrich volume pedal, Gibson E175 D. Lap steel Melobar. http://www.myspace.com/ferdinandoghidelli |
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Herb Steiner
From:
Cedar Valley, Travis County TX
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| Posted 24 Oct 2009 6:21 am |
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Hey Jimbeaux
Thanks for that turnaround. I hadn't thought of it before and it's quite neat! You rock!
_________________
Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association
My rig: steel guitar, seat, amp, volume pedal, and 2 cords.
Whoever said "the pen is mightier than the sword" has obviously never been stabbed. |
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David Mason
From:
Cambridge, MD, USA
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| Posted 24 Oct 2009 7:08 am |
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Eeek? Why are you hiding the juicy bit, guys....
P5+P6+ A-Ab = 11th fret G7 chord. And a 9th fret F7, of course. If you also have the G - F lever, you'll get a 6th chord out of it. Try:
4th fret: P5 + P6 + A-Ab + G-F
4th fret: P5 + P6 + A-Ab
6th fret: P5 + P6 + A-Ab + G-F
6th fret: P5 + P6 + A-Ab
7th fret: open whoopie!
I use those 7th chords a lot, and the 6th chords even more. (Hey, isn't G6 sort of like Em?  ) |
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Greg Cutshaw
From:
Corry, PA, USA
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| Posted 24 Oct 2009 10:19 am |
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Here's some audio and tab from the guts of a song I recorded using the Ab change. It also shows a neat use of the string 6 half tone raise. First string is a "D".
Use of Ab Change Audio
Greg |
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Nathan Golub
From:
Durham, NC
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| Posted 24 Oct 2009 11:07 am |
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This is all great stuff, thanks guys! I realized I can half-pedal my A-B change for the Bb on the 4th string too. Not as convenient as having the change on a lever, but it will do for now.
_________________
'75 Emmons D10, Hilton VP, NV112, 70's Twin
www.myspace.com/rosewoodbluff |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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| Posted 25 Oct 2009 10:02 am |
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| Herb Steiner wrote: |
Hey Jimbeaux
Thanks for that turnaround. I hadn't thought of it before and it's quite neat! You rock! |
Glad you like that one, Herb. I've been over-using it ever since I 'discovered' it sittin' there right out in the open on my neck. Actually, it came to me from the realization that a 7b9 chord is the same as a diminished chord and since dim chords repeat/invert every 3 frets, so too must 7b9 chords. So instead of playing my G7b9 at the 'usual' 2-below position of the 5th fret with pedals 6&7, I could move it up to the 8th fret, just a fret below where I was getting my Dm9 chord. Then repeat the move starting at the 7th fret for Cm9, down a fret to 6th fret for the F7b9, resolving down one more fret to BbMaj7.
It set me on a nice hunt for other things I could do by moving a 7b9 chord up or down by 3 or 6 frets.
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www.JimCohen.com
www.SteelGuitarJazz.com
www.BeatsWalkin.com |
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Fred Glave
From:
McHenry, Illinois, USA
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| Posted 29 Oct 2009 2:52 pm |
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I've been seriously considering turning my 4th pedal into a Franklin Pedal for my E9 neck, but last night, I tuned my C6 neck 4th pedal pulls down a 1/2 step for strings 4 & 8...A to Bb, and now I don't know what I want! Maybe I need another knee lever to replace my 4th pedal.
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Sho-Bud Professional, Fender 2000, Harlan Bros. Multi-Kord |
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Greg Cutshaw
From:
Corry, PA, USA
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| Posted 29 Oct 2009 3:29 pm |
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Fred, i put the Franklin change and the the A's to B both on the 4th pedal. It pulls a bit hard but it's totally useable!
Greg |
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Tracy Sheehan
From:
Fort Worth, Texas, USA
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| Posted 29 Oct 2009 10:34 pm A to A flat on the C 6th. |
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It depends on what one wants to play.If one raises the 7th,lowers the 9th and 10th on the C 6th with the 8th or which ever floor pedal.Holding this pedal down and lowering the A to A flat with a knee lever gives about the fattest major 7th chord you can make.
I don,t recall off the top of my head but i believe Chalker had this change also.
You can go down every 3rd fret with this change and get some great big major 7th endings.Again it is what one wants to play,but i think this is how Chalker got those big fat major 7th endings among other things.
As i no longer have a pedal steel i have to do this in my head.Tracy |
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Jonathan Cullifer
From:
Belmont Univ (Nashville, TN)
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| Posted 29 Oct 2009 10:48 pm |
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There's a lot of uses for A to Ab:
With G to F lower, you get the 4 minor.
With 2, 3, and 4, you get an augmented chord.
There's some good licks on strings 3 and 4 using that lever.
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Jonathan Cullifer
http://www.atlserver.net/ |
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