The Steel Guitar Forum

Dom Franco · From: Beaverton, OR, 97007

I listen to many of you who post your songs, and it seems that most of you all use "Band in a Box" or some other midi music maker software.
Please don't take offense, but I feel the Steel guitar itself and the quality of your playing, deserves better background music.

Many software based tracks sound "canned" to me. The drums are often robotic, and chords remind me of the casio keyboard auto-chords function.

I challenge you all to make better tracks!
You play the Steel! how hard would it be to pick up a guitar and play some real chords, then add a bass if desired...

Once again, when I listen to the great steel guitar licks, and fantastic tone you guys achieve, I would rather hear it accapella, than with the fake sounding backgrounds.

OK I am ready for the heated replies...

Dom Confused

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Silvertone Lap Steel,(Valco) Peavey Powerslide,Shobud LDG 1/2 dozen other steel guitars... 2 resonators, Fender Tele, Vibratone (Leslie cabinet) Hot Rod Deluxe, several other amps and speaker cabs. and 1 understanding wife!

Rick Campbell · From: Knoxville, TN, USA

BIAB is only as good as the person operating it. With the new real drums, it's hard to beat. Obviously it lacks the spontanious reactions of a room full of musicians, but I've heard some BIAB tracks that I liked better too. Don't be too quick to knock BIAB until you hear some tracks that someone did that knows what they're doing. To do that would be like hearing me play steel and assume that all steel player sound like I do. What a disgrace to the steel guitar community that would be!

I find that with BIAB for drums and piano rhythms, and playing the guitars, bass, etc... manually creates some pretty decent tracks. The great think is that you can change the arrangement, tempo, and key with the click of the mouse.

Anyone that can tune a guitar and knows the difference between a 1, 4, and 5 chords can program a song in BIAB and have plenty of brain power to spare.

If you spend much on backing tracks, BIAB will pay for itself really fast, and then you can spend the rest on food, beer, women, golf, new gear, etc....

I'm not associated in any way with BIAB, and you guys that know me know I tell like I see it.

Dom Franco · From: Beaverton, OR, 97007

Rick, I agree that "real drums" and piano parts sound fine from BIAB when programmed well and especially mixed with real time recorded guitar and bass tracks.

That is more like what I do in my studio. Because my "piano" is really a synth keyboard anyway, and I program a drum machine, sometimes using real cymbal and percussion overdubs. And then I guitar bass, and other real parts.

What I don't especially care for is the fake Trumpets, orchestra sounds etc. and some of the drum parts just tick tack along so un-musically.

Also most of these fake instuments, are not what you would hear in a real live band situation where the steel would be featured. (mostly guitar bass and drums to be specific)

Dom Cool

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Silvertone Lap Steel,(Valco) Peavey Powerslide,Shobud LDG 1/2 dozen other steel guitars... 2 resonators, Fender Tele, Vibratone (Leslie cabinet) Hot Rod Deluxe, several other amps and speaker cabs. and 1 understanding wife!

Robert Tripp · From: Mesa, Arizona, USA

I've heard string pads and horns etc programmed into bluegrass arrangements in BIAB. Just because you can doesn't mean you should.

There are a lot of really good musicians who sell lots of CDs that are primarily BIAB arrangements along with some killer live instruments.

It all depends on the producer.
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I might be a beginner now, but someday I'm gonna steel the show.

Jack Stoner · From: Inverness, Florida

I use Alesis drum machines (SR-16 and SR-1 Cool

in my "studio" but everything else is the real instruments. I have a lot of samples that came with Sonar (8.5 Producer version) but I never use them when recording.

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC..

Yes to #1 and no to BIAB.Drums are programed with Loops or with EZ drummer, all other parts are played with the hands. using some sort of wooden Instrument.
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David Winfrey · From: Oklahoma, USA

For drums I typically use EZ Drummer from Toontrack if I'n not using "real" drums. The Nashville expansion pack has an excellent drum kit and good grooves. Additional grooves are also available in midi from from several websites. EX Drummer is sampled drums, so you are getting actual drum tracks, not something created electronically. Also, it is as easy as drag and drop. (I'm not affliliated with them, just a satisfied customer.)
For all other tracks I use "real" instruments.
Regards,
David
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Tony Glassman · From: The Great Northwest

I'm with Dom.

I recently spent $200 to purchase BIAB and a 3rd party package of songs. I couldn't be more disappointed.

The keyboards all sound like some variation of a Farfisa organ, while the guitars (especially the acoustic) sound like no stringed instruments native to this planet. The drum tracks are basically glorified metronomes.

On the plus side, it's fairly easy to assemble a song
Unfortunately, it still sounds like "carnival music".

So far, people have told me to buy "Real Tracks" or other sampled instruments packages, a new "sound card" and a sound support system. So far I've seen little evidence to compel me to spend more $$.

Bottom line....I bought this package to use for a practice tool. The instrument sound reproduction is so uninspiring that I doubt I'll use it.

Andy Sandoval · From: Bakersfield, California, USA

Rick Campbell · From: Knoxville, TN, USA

Tony,

I think that maybe your expectations are too high, or you have not learned to use BIAB well enough yet to produce tracks that are acceptable to you. If you'd give it some time and work with it, I think you might get more positve results. I'd hate to see you waste $200. Let us know if we can help you.

1. Are yor using the Roland VSC software synth that comes with BIAB? or another software sync?

2. Are you running the output from the computer through a sound system, amp, etc....

3. Do you have the real drums?

4. If you doing any 4/4 shuffle beat songs, you really need the Ray Price styles that are sold here.

Hope you get things working better for you.

Tony Glassman · From: The Great Northwest

Thanks for the input, but from what I can see neither Coyote nor Roland VSC are Mac compatible. I'm wondering if I can integrate BIAB w/ Garage Band. I'd even consider buying Real Tracks, but I heard they take forever to load, and I'd have to hear some completed tracks before I'd commit.

Anyone w/ Mac experience out there?

Rick Campbell · From: Knoxville, TN, USA

Tony, my experience is with PC, but I just installed a new Mac in my studio and loaded BIAB. It seems to work okay with the Mac Apple sounds, but I've not really got into it too deep yet. I'll keep you posted as I progress.

The real tracks sound okay, but they do take forever to load. I kind of avoid them unless I just have to have them for something.

Smile

Dom Franco · From: Beaverton, OR, 97007

I guess I just prefer setting up a mic, and strummin my old guitar, than clicking around on a computer screen with a mouse to record a track...
Dom Rolling Eyes

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Silvertone Lap Steel,(Valco) Peavey Powerslide,Shobud LDG 1/2 dozen other steel guitars... 2 resonators, Fender Tele, Vibratone (Leslie cabinet) Hot Rod Deluxe, several other amps and speaker cabs. and 1 understanding wife!

Richard Nelson · From: Drogheda, Louth, Ireland

I have used this sucessfully . I had to write all my parts initially .Slow but sounds great. I hear that on the new Apple Logic studio you can drag the whole garrage band session and work there . I have to bounce down each track indivudally on Performer
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Scott Henderson · From: Camdenton, Missouri, USA

I use Ez Drummer or Drums on demand and program them myself. Other than that everything else is the real deal. I play n a duo and we use tracks Plus I build tracks for recording projects.
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Mark Mansueto · From: Michigan, USA

Programmed backing tracks can sound very nice but I've never heard any that sound like a real person playing... ever. Some ears may be conditioned to hearing programed instruments or maybe you haven't had the luxury of working with a band but IMO there is no substitute for the dynamics and feel that a person playing an istrument produces.
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Greg Cutshaw · From: Corry, PA, USA

My backing tracks consist of all real instruments except I use Ezdrummer, mostly Nashville expansion pack. Real bass guitar, accoustic rhythm sometimes layered with another accoustic or rhythm guitar, real trumpet, lead guitar. I augment the EZDrummer patterns with my own fills, intros, endings and since they are real samples and the there is such a real feel to them, I don't see how getting a real drummer would make any difference! I have worked with many drummers that did not play as well or as in synch with me as EZDrummer. Yes there have been a few drummers that were better but recording them would be a hassle. The BIAB piano backing is excellent for complex chord arrangements and be added to the other real instruments with excellent results.

Greg

Gianni Gori · From: Livorno, Italy

I do use backing tracks for practicing...

I'm used to make my own, using Nuendo for recording them.
The first step is usually programming a midi drum track. For this task I find that Toontrack EZdrummer is fantastic, even if I always edit manually all the tracks. Once the track is ready I play it with Toontrack Superior2 VST. As the name may suggest, it's much much better than EZdrummer. The sound is...real, and fully editable.

Once the drum is done I add bass and guitar(s) tracks. I play and record real guitars and bass for this. I do love arrangements so for me this is the fun part of the work.
About keyboards and vocals (when needed)... I am not that good with them but I have good friends who can do this for me.

It takes a while for doing all this, I know, but what I get is a backing track sounding "real".
And whenever I decide to record pedal steel too I have the whole song recorded and ready Smile

Mark Mansueto · From: Michigan, USA

I can definitely understand why a lot of folks use programmed drums or use electronic drums for that matter. Real drums are big and loud and a hassle to mic. I'm lucky because I have a drummer and drumset at my disposal and I've developed a mic'ing technique that works well. If it weren't for that I'd be using a drum program too.
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Bob Martin · From: Madison Tn

Some folks buy BIAB and from what they have heard all you do is type in chords and viola' you have wonderful real sounding music. Unfortunately those folks have been mislead it is not easy to create real sounding tracks with BIAB and if you don't have one of the newer packages of it you most likely never will make believable tracks.

I've heard tracks made from real instruments in home studios as well as professional studios that sound much worse than a lot of BIAB tracks so it goes both ways. When someone plays all of the instruments on a song it can sound fantastic but what happens when one person plays all of the instruments on a track and that person is not a great player to start with? The answer is you end up with something that sounds as bad or even worse than poorly produced BIAB tracks.

So as I'm sure you see by now I am blaming bad sounding tracks on the person making them not the intruments used whether BIAB or real instruments. No matter whether it is BIAB or a collection of very expensive acoustic instruments with a 1/2 million dollar Bosendorfer grand recorded in the best studio in the world. The tracks will sound just as bad or worse than someone that doesn't produce good BIAB tracks. So what are we going to do well we'll do what we've always done there will be some songs with great backing tracks and then there will be other songs with terrible sounding backing tracks and we can either listen to them or not.

The old saying holds very true here when recording any music any where any time. Crap in equals crap out!
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Buddy Young · From: Kentucky, USA

i use cubase and do all my tracks its slow but turns out alright most of the time have done cds for gospel singers this way and they were pleased with it
i like playing the instruments it fun and also my hobby