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Topic: power tubes to clean up deville |
Alex Piazza
From:
Arkansas, USA
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Posted 31 Aug 2008 2:58 pm |
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| Im using a hot rod deville as my main amp to double on six string and pedal steel for live gigs. Just wondering if any of you that play low watt tube amps have any suggestions for some tubes that could add a little extra headroom. Its got the groove tubes now, and im sure its biased somewhat cold being right out of the box. Thanks |
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Curtis Alford
From:
BastropTexas, USA 78602
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Posted 31 Aug 2008 5:54 pm Re-tubing
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I changed all the caps to an upgrade quality cap, change the V2 & V3 tubes, Don't recall what to at the moment and re-biased it sounds most like the black face twin with less power but has the tone.
If I need volume I add a power amp and extention speaker,otherwise I go to the system for the house. |
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David Higginbotham
From:
Lake Charles, Louisiana, USA
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Posted 31 Aug 2008 9:09 pm
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Alex, when looking at the back of the amp there will be a preamp tube set away from the other two preamp tubes. Change that preamp tube from a 12AX7 to a 12AT7. That will increase your headroom and it will not distort as early. You can probably get clean up to 7 on the volume. I like JJ/Tesla tubes, but that is my preferance.
Dave |
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Chuck Snider
From:
West Virginia, USA - Morgantown, WV
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Posted 1 Sep 2008 10:55 am
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Just curious, how that DeVille sounds. I got into PSG a couple of months ago and am in the midst of moving. I have a DeVille 4x10 at my son's place in West Virginia, and will eventually want to try that with my PSG once I move up there. I took it up there before I got the PSG. But, I've wondered how it will sound, or if it even works at all with a PSG. Since that amp was up there and my PSG is here, I needed to get something to play through the had a little kick to it. I ran across a Peavey Nashville 400 at a good price so I got it to use in the meantime. The NV400 sounds great, but I also wonder how the DeVille will sound/work.
Thanks,
-Chuck
_________________
GFI U-12 Ultra Keyless, Carter Black U-12, both with Alumitones, and a sweet '70 Sho-Bud Permanent D-10, NV400 in Rick Johnson cabs, NV112, '73 Vibrosonic in Rick Johnson cabs, Hilton pedal, Steeler's Choice seat, Bessdang Gizmos from Dale Hansen, and a few other widgets and doodads.
I may not sound good, I just don't wanna sound bad. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 1 Sep 2008 11:49 am
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Generally, you need high power for good bass response. The Deville will do a decent job if you're not looking for a lot of output on the lower end. If you try to get a fat sound at high volume, it'll just start breaking up because of the lower power.
For practice, recording, and small gigs, it will do just fine. |
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Curt Langston
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Posted 1 Sep 2008 11:57 am
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If you try to get a fat sound at high volume, it'll just start breaking up because of the lower power.
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Yes, it will break up. That's what it was designed to do. It's not the power, it is the preamp design. The preamps in most tube amps are designed to break up. |
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David Doggett
From:
Bawl'mer, MD (formerly of MS, Nawluns, Gnashville, Knocksville, Lost Angeles, Bahsten. and Philly)
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Posted 1 Sep 2008 1:59 pm
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| Also, the 10s are not ideal for pedal steel. Although some steelers use them and think they sound okay, the vast majority prefer the richer voice of 15s. Those 10s will have you rolling off the treble and turning up the bass, which exacerbates the low power and breakup problem. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 1 Sep 2008 5:40 pm
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| Curt Langston wrote: |
| Yes, it will break up. That's what it was designed to do. It's not the power, it is the preamp design. The preamps in most tube amps are designed to break up. |
In the case of the H/R Deville, the amp has a clean channel, and an overdrive channel.
Amps actually designed for overdriven sounds will usually have an "overdrive" or a "lead/crunch" input option. IMHO, most small amps are not really designed for distortion. What happens is that when the signal is increased to excess, clipping (distortion) of the waveform takes place. The more you push the amp, the more distortion you get. But played at a low volume, the distortion is not evident.
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Mike Fried
From:
Nashville, TN, USA
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Posted 1 Sep 2008 7:35 pm
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Most of the lack of headroom in that series of amps is in the preamp. In ones I've serviced I've gotten better results by changing out the first preamp tube with a 12AY7/6072 or a 5751 (lower gain version of 12AX7). It also wouldn't hurt to have a tech check the power tube bias to ensure that it is indeed running toward the "cold" side.
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Visit my music page at http://facebook.com/drfried |
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Alex Piazza
From:
Arkansas, USA
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Posted 2 Sep 2008 8:39 am
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chuck, I think the deville sounds pretty good with my steel. It doesnt sound as good as a twin reverb or probably a NV400, but it works perfect for my set up in a live situation. At live gigs im switching between a telecaster, and a lap steel, and pedal steel. The dirty channel sounds great w/ the tele and lap steel as long as you dont go past 3 on the drive switch. When I switch to pedal steel, all I have to do is switch to the clean channel and Im ready to go. The reverb is a little grainy, so i dont turn it up past 3-4. However, my secret to making this amp sound great is running a maxon ad999 analog delay pedal through the effects loop. I keep it on all the time!!! I run the steel through the 2nd input. Its not as harsh. I just have to tell the sound man to crank me up a bit.
If your just playing steel I wouldnt go w/ this amp, but if your just playing in your living room I wouldnt buy another amp if youve already got this one.
Im going to try a 12at7 in the pre-amp slot and see if I can get a little more headroom.
If fender could make the clean channel on this amp sound like a twin Id pay double just for the convenience of the dirty channel and effects loop. |
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Michael Johnstone
From:
Sylmar,Ca. USA
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Posted 2 Sep 2008 9:19 am
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| I got a Blues DeVille w/2-12s a few years ago for a 6-string guitar gig I had in a 9 pc soul band I was playing with in fairly large venues like BB Kings. That amp was designed to be a "Super Reverb meets Marshall" for R&B/Blues/Rock guitar pickers in medium sized clubs and it does just that quite well. But I was also playing B-3 organ samples thru it with a Roland rig/RotoSphere and the stock amp just lacked the headroom for all that. So I had local tube amp witch doctor Bob Metzger replace the power tubes with 6550s and he also added a secondary transformer just to heat those big tubes and what a difference in headroom it made! We then played with various preamp tubes till it sweetened up the front end. As I recall there was a lot of experimentation with the preamp tubes. Bob also added trim pots so you can bias the 6550s. I went thru 2 sets of Russian tubes in the first 2 or 3 months so I finally popped for a set of matched 1960s NOS GEs and have been a happy camper ever since. Still I wouldn't play pedal steel thru it on any sort of gig - still too mushy for that. Not enough EQ for another thing. I got what I wanted out of the mod and that was loud clean blackface chimey James Brown rhythm chanks,singing Mesa Boogie/Santana-like lead tones and Winwood/Steppenwolf roaring rock organ. My Stringmaster happens to sound fantastic thru it however and for that authentic 40s-50s console steel tone you can't beat it. I don't know if I would say that if it had stock tubes and/or the 4-10" configuration. It's a guitar amp. The only tube amp I'd even consider for pedal steel would be a Super Twin w/a 15. Keeping one of those in tubes would be a bitch however. That's why I like the DeVille - 2 power tubes and 3 preamp tubes. I've played PSG thru a stock Twin on the road when I had to but I always needed outboard EQ. I much prefer high power SS amps for pedal steel. |
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Alex Piazza
From:
Arkansas, USA
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Posted 5 Sep 2008 6:24 am
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| David, I got a 12AT7 from bob at jj eurotubes. They told me to put it in the V1 preamp spot which is closest to the inputs. What is the difference between the v1 and v3 preamp spots on this amp? Ive got mine in the v3 spot like you told me, and it sounds good. I havnt tried the v1 yet. |
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Scott Shipley
From:
The Ozark Mountains
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Posted 5 Sep 2008 6:42 am
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Mesa Boogie tubes, pre AND power. HUGE difference.
Also, there are mods you can do to the circuit board in these amps. Gives you about 15 - 20 more watts, and a little more output before the crunch starts.
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Scott Shipley Facebook |
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David Higginbotham
From:
Lake Charles, Louisiana, USA
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