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Post new topic Zane Beck's 12 String Copedant
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Author Topic:  Zane Beck's 12 String Copedant
Dan Burnham


From:
Greenfield, Tennessee
Post Posted 6 Mar 2008 6:19 am     Reply with quote

Here are the 2 Copedants that Zane Beck Used. You will see the first one released in 1977 and then the last one used before he died.

1977 Copedant


Last Copedant




An incredible tuning for 4 Floors and 5 Knees.

Dan
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Scott Swartz


From:
St. Louis, MO
Post Posted 6 Mar 2008 8:05 am     Reply with quote

I can see a lot of useful intervals and moves on this tuning, but I am not seeing what pedal 4 does, you can get the A on pedal 1 and there are two unison F# notes on strings 2,3?
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Scott Swartz
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J D Sauser


From:
Puerto Plata, Dominican Republic.
Post Posted 6 Mar 2008 8:28 am     Reply with quote

To me it looks like pedals 2&3 are B&A (Day setup). To the right of it is something that emulates half the C plus the B pedal (#4), when pressed together with #3 it makes a full B&C (?).
All in all, it looks like an E9th (really E13th) with some of the chordal capabilities of C6th.

... J-D.
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Dan Burnham


From:
Greenfield, Tennessee
Post Posted 6 Mar 2008 8:45 am     JD You are Right Reply with quote

JD you are right. Zane did the Day setup. To pull your basic E9 using his last copedant, you would simply engage the Right Knee Left. That puts it in E9 mode. To play B6 you would simply engage LKL for the I chord. Let the LKL out for the IV chord same fret, slide up two frets and you have the V chord.

I love this setup. There are somethings I can't do on this tuning that I can do on Universal and vise versa.

Dan
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Dave Zirbel


From:
Sebastopol, CA USA
Post Posted 6 Mar 2008 9:42 am     Reply with quote

Which two strings and changes would you eliminate if you only had 10 strings? I'm looking for the best of both worlds on an S10 5 x 4.

Dave
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Brint Hannay


From:
Maryland, USA
Post Posted 6 Mar 2008 10:02 am     Reply with quote

Just a little proofreading note: It appears the column heads for the right knee levers are reversed in the "Last Copedent" chart. Or else the columns themselves, including heads, are reversed, but that would make the two copedents actually identical.
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Dan Burnham


From:
Greenfield, Tennessee
Post Posted 6 Mar 2008 10:05 am     Reply with quote

Dave,
If you can can do without the "Doo-Wah" I would eliminate the last 2 strings, 11, 12. You would still get your basic E9/B6 with most of your upper chords on the B6 Side.

I will be offering an introduction to the ZB Tuning on the BMI Website Starting next week probably around Wednesday. I will post each week a different aspect of the tuning how it compares to the traditional tunings. The course will start out with chord movements and then work into runs and songs. It won't happen over night but the goal is to expose the tuning as much as possible.

Dan
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Dan Burnham


From:
Greenfield, Tennessee
Post Posted 6 Mar 2008 10:08 am     Your Right Reply with quote

Brint,
You are correct. Zane reversed them. I currently use the 1977 copedant because, most guys knees want to lay outward, due to habit. So, it was easier for me to do RKR to put me in E9 Mode instead of RKL all the time when doing country music.

Dan
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Dave Zirbel


From:
Sebastopol, CA USA
Post Posted 6 Mar 2008 10:32 am     Reply with quote

Is it really an E9/B6 tuning or did Zane call it E9/E6? I struggle with theory and copedants. It's easier for me to ask. Embarassed
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Dan Burnham


From:
Greenfield, Tennessee
Post Posted 6 Mar 2008 10:47 am     To Me it's E9/B6 Reply with quote

It's E13th because of the notes that make up the open tuning. To me it's a E9/B6 because to go into the 6th mode you go back 2 Frets. Take Standard E9. Goto Fret 8 and hit A & B Pedal. You are now in the key of F Maj. If you want to go into B6 mode and play in F6 you would slide back to Fret 6 Lower your E's with LKR if your using Emmons setup and you are in F6.

Julian Tharpe is the only one I know that played E9/E6. His first 7 strings were standard E9. Strings 8-14 were E6. So Julian could play E9 or E6 straight up and down on the fret without moving the bar.

Dan
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Terry Wood


From:
Marshfield, MO
Post Posted 7 Mar 2008 1:20 pm     Reply with quote

When Julian and Zane recorded their L.P. together years ago titled "12 + 14 = Country Jazz," it was really difficult to tell which one was playing what when you listened to it. their tunings were different yet they melted together on this L.P.

A good friend of Julian's and mine was there and he was amazed by it all. Later, I was given my copy by Zane himself at his house, and also our mutual friend Speedy West wrote the liner notes for the L.P. Sure miss all these three steel players and friends.

I wish that L.P. was reissued on CD. In fact I wish all their L.P.s were re-released on CDs. It is a shame that alot of younger players may never get to hear these two Giants of The Steel Guitar.

Terry Wood
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Dan Burnham


From:
Greenfield, Tennessee
Post Posted 7 Mar 2008 1:26 pm     Amen Reply with quote

Terry you are right. Zane and Julian were at the top of the list.

Dan
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Ted Solesky


From:
Mineral Wells, Texas, USA
Post Posted 7 Mar 2008 1:30 pm     Reply with quote

When you all talk about Zane, you're talking about one of my favorite people. Zane had me sit behind his geetar to try that tunning. If I had went 12 string, that seemed to be the easiest to adapt to as far as getting it all. Zane told me that he had his daughter sit at the pie-ano (piano) and hit chords. He says he was able to copy all of them with his tunning. He sure was a genius. I sure dug him. Ted
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Dan Burnham


From:
Greenfield, Tennessee
Post Posted 7 Mar 2008 1:49 pm     Down Side to Zane's Tuning Reply with quote

The Down Side is there was never a lot of tab for it. A lot of players wouldn't switch because of the modified grips. For me, Zane's tuning has it's place. Like Terry mentioned earlier regarding Zane and Julian, I can play some stuff that Jullian Did on Zane's Tuning but I can't get it on standard or universal tuning but, the opposite is true also. I use Zane's tuning when I want to play the other stuff. For traditional, I still like standard. Like I said they both have their place. I'm sure there are others Like Zane King, Dan Rollins, and a few more that would totally disagree with me and that's ok. There are some licks I lose because I don't have the Chromatics on the top. I still say it's the best Universal Tuning for the least amount of floors and knees.

Dan
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Johnny Cox


From:
Lives in Nashville, Missin Texas
Post Posted 29 Jan 2016 11:32 am     Reply with quote

Glad I found this. I'm going to a S12 and didn't want E9/B6th. The tuning I'm using is basically an E13th but I still have the 2nd string except it's tuned to D. Thanks Dan.
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Johnny "Dumplin" Cox
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Dan Rollans


From:
Little Rock, Arkansas, USA
Post Posted 29 Jan 2016 6:12 pm     Dan Rollans on Zane's Tuning Reply with quote

Hey Dan, Glad you posted this thread. I started playing Zane's tuning when I was 15 years old,and still loving it now at age 54. You do the math. I play this tuning on 12 strings and on my favorite 38 year old 10 string BMI with that great pickup you turned me on to. I have added a few changes and only removed two from the original set up that Zane installed on my first 12 string BMI. We have four players on the Central Arkansas Steel Guitar Assocication that play the ZB tuning and they all love it. You can play straight E9 style,C6th style or mix them on the fly to create your on sound. Posted below is my set up with notes that posted on this subject awhile back. I hope I have this correct. Please, if anyone is interested in this tuning, please feel free to contact me at www.steelerschoice.com or email me from the forum.

I have been playing Zane's tuning for 30 years now. I started out on a s10 BMI e9th when I was 15. Zane moved to Little Rock around my 16th birthday and said "Your going to learn this tuning and I will teach you!" So at xmas I recieved a new BMI s12 4p 5K.
I will admit, I was lost for a week or so going from E9 to Zane's setup. But after that, it was a dream to play and still is. I will try to post Zane's tuning.


Str--lkl--lkr--lkv-p1--p2--p3--p4-(p5)-(p6)--rkl--rkr
1-G#------------------A-------A---------------------
2-F#------------(G#)-------------------------------
3-E--Eb--F--------------------F#--------------------
4-C#----------D-----------D------------------Eb-----
5-B------------------------C#-----------(A)----------
6-G#---------F#------A-------A---------------------
7-F#-----------(G#)-F-----------------------------(E)
8-D-Eb-(F)------------------------------------E---(C#
9-B------------------------C#-----(C)---(A)-------(A)
10G#-----------------G--------A---------------------
11E-Eb----------C#-----------F#--------------------
12B-------------------------------(G#)------------(A)
-----------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------
The above is Zane's tuning as played by myself Dan Rollans. The string notes and pedals shown as ( ) are modifications to the tuning that I have made over the years. Zane oringinally had RKR pulling strings as RKL shown in chart, but swapped levers sometime around 1981 or 1982. After the swap Zane used the RKR to raise the 5th string from a B to C and lower strings 9 and 12 from B to Bb.
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Dan Burnham


From:
Greenfield, Tennessee
Post Posted 29 Jan 2016 6:58 pm     This Tuning Reply with quote

Dan, you do a great job of playing this tuning.

Johnny - you are on of my heroes Whoa! Whoa!
I am curious about your E13 do you have a C#?
Are you going to 12 String full time?

Guys I have been playing Julian's tuning since 2009. The basic advantage for me going to Julian's was the first 6 strings are standard E9, 7 - 14 E6.

Johnny I know your were around Julian and Curly. Did Julian ever talk to you about how and why he developed the tuning he did? I do know he was a big fan of Curly and that Curly worked with him a lot when he was younger. Any insight you could offer would be helpful Smile

Now in closing, the common element to both Zane and Julian's was the C#. Zane had it on the fourth string and Julian had two in the lower open tuning,


Dan
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Tony Dingus


From:
Kingsport, Tennessee, USA
Post Posted 29 Jan 2016 8:56 pm     Reply with quote

Johnny, would you post the E13 you're using and pedals ? I'm thinking about tuning my C neck to this.

Tony
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Johnny Cox


From:
Lives in Nashville, Missin Texas
Post Posted 29 Jan 2016 9:09 pm     Reply with quote

Dan, I do have a C# in the middle of the tuning. I played Julian's tuning in the 70's too. That was really fun but I lost a gig because the guitar looked too jazzy. As soon as I find a copy if my setup chart I'll post it. Basically it's E9th with a C# in the middle E,C#,B and an E on bottom. Wish I had that old Bud 14 string back.
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Johnny "Dumplin" Cox
"YANKIN' STRINGS, STOMPIN' PEDALS" & turnin' wrenches since 1967.
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Tony Dingus


From:
Kingsport, Tennessee, USA
Post Posted 29 Jan 2016 9:20 pm     Reply with quote

Thanks Johnny.

Tony
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Dan Burnham


From:
Greenfield, Tennessee
Post Posted 30 Jan 2016 5:08 pm     The C# Reply with quote

Johnny,
WOW that is awesome. I have tried to get players to at least try Julian's Tuning but there is little interest. I used to play a 10 string version modified of Julian's Tuning. Here it is.




Dan
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Mike Spaeth


From:
Central Illinois, USA
Post Posted 30 Jan 2016 6:50 pm     ZB Tuning Reply with quote

Has anyone anyone tweaked this tuning to more of an Emmons approach rather than the Day approach?
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Johnny Cox


From:
Lives in Nashville, Missin Texas
Post Posted 30 Jan 2016 9:17 pm     Reply with quote

I wasn't smart enough to do on 10 strings. I just plowed into a 14 string. Julian said "It's the answer". Wish I still had it.
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Johnny "Dumplin" Cox
"YANKIN' STRINGS, STOMPIN' PEDALS" & turnin' wrenches since 1967.
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