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Topic: Installing new keys on old steel guitars? |
Bobbe Seymour
From:
Hendersonville TN USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 28 Jan 2008 12:29 pm |
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A past forum subject/post had to do with what fits , what doesn't and what's good and what isn't in the line of tuning keys.
Here is a "Hot-Rod" Emmons P-P that sounds, plays and works incredibly well, you'll have to see it in person to check the beauty.
Yes, we had to re-machine all the keys extensivly, but it was well worth the effort.
The keys are Grover Rotomatics with Grover Imperial top knobs.
Bobbe
www.steelguitar.net/keys1.jpg
www.steelguitar.net/keys2.jpg |
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Jim Eaton
From:
Santa Susana, Ca
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Posted 28 Jan 2008 12:46 pm
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How did you avoid the collision problem with the 1st stg on C6 neck and 10 stg on E9 neck? Could not tell from the photo's.
JE:-)> |
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Jerry Roller
From:
Van Buren, Arkansas USA
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Posted 28 Jan 2008 1:22 pm
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Bobbe, it hurts me to see a bar laying in between the necks. Please move it and re-post the photos. T
Jerry |
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Bobbe Seymour
From:
Hendersonville TN USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 28 Jan 2008 1:46 pm
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Jerry, the bar will not hurt this finish, however I agree most wholehartedly on any BUT this "Nevermar Fenalite" finishing laminate. Hammers won't dent or scratch it. It only comes in black and is another great expermental feature of this "X" guitar.
As to the other question , The #10 E9 stg and the #1 C6th string buttons DID have to be slightly milled to miss each other. But you have to be looking hard to see where. Seeing this guitar in person is quite a thing to behold.
Another thing is, it has original 'Wraparound" necks, with the new Lawrence 705 pickups.
This is an astounding and over all incredible guitar, it's owner loves it, and is a collector of over 40 incredible great and rare steel guitars, along with being a great player (with money).
Oh, the ser. number is 1122 D . (sound familiar Brian Adams?)
Bobbe |
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Ken Byng
From:
Southampton, England
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Posted 28 Jan 2008 1:46 pm
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Bobbe - that looks classy.
Jim E. Looks as though the E9th 10th string tuner sits higher than the 1st string tuner on the C6 neck.
The Imperial tuners are quite shallow so it works in this case to avoid contact. I am trying to track down some pearl tuner buttons for my Grovers on me ShoBud D10, just to give it a different look.
Copper pearloid ones would look great, but I haven't found any suitable for Grovers.
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Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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Posted 28 Jan 2008 1:52 pm
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I am not really excited about the gold keys..I guess your client with all the steels and the money is a rap artist.  |
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Don Brown, Sr.
From:
New Jersey
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Posted 28 Jan 2008 3:39 pm
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Bobbe, did you have to mil down the 5th & 6th tuner's ends so they didn't hit each other?
BTW: CM, says to tell ya hi.
Don |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 28 Jan 2008 5:36 pm
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| bobbe....is their a good quality replacement tuner for the butterfly klusons on my old zum....bruce sent me many replacements over the years for the sloppy ones, but i could still use some good ones! |
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Bobbe Seymour
From:
Hendersonville TN USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 28 Jan 2008 8:20 pm
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Chris, there are many great keys available , most requier some machine work, some look great, some don't. All seem to work fine. I'd say just buy what looks good to you, all can be installed, some a lot easier than others.
Don Brown SR.,,,, Yes, I did have to mill down the two post at positions 5 and 6 on both necks.
I'll say again, this guitar is beautiful, I'll post pictures of the whole guitar when I get the Emmons backing plate gold plated. Should be soon, when I get over my temporary medical problems.
Bobbe |
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Bobbe Seymour
From:
Hendersonville TN USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 28 Jan 2008 8:26 pm
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| Seems like I got the end plates from Chris Lucker, (1122 D), not Brian Adams, the body from E-bay (years ago), Necks from a salvaged '64 Emmons from Ron SR. years ago. Wish I could keep it, it is a great sounding guitar and plays great, but it has the narrow pedal spacing, I like the wider spaceing myself, |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 29 Jan 2008 12:47 pm
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For those of you looking for the old open-gear, butterbean tuners, Grover still makes the old Sta-tites. Also a new model Sta-tite with 18 to 1 gear ratio.
Go here and click on the tuner your interested in.
http://www.grotro.com/Mainvintage.html |
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Bobbe Seymour
From:
Hendersonville TN USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 29 Jan 2008 12:56 pm
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Whew, John, I really don't recommend the "Sta-tites".
Seem to get sloppy fast, know what I mean? How ever, some classics need them to be original I 'spose.
Los-Bobbster |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 29 Jan 2008 1:16 pm
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Edit: I just remembered that Emmons used Kluson Deluxes I think!
Shobud, and a plethora of other makers used them when they were about all that was available. The new ones I've seen seem to be very precision made, and very smooth operating. The 18 to 1 tuners seem really nice. Waverly makes a very expensive copy of the old Grovers, and everybody raves about them! Also, the tuners on my Perm and Fingertip, though old, work fine. They're sloppy as all get out until they get enough tension on them. Then the slack disappears.
I've noticed in old guitars that a lot of "slop" is caused by wear to the post holes in the keyhead casting. The chrome-plated posts wear the aluminum as time goes by!
Course, I like to restore old Buds, and am a stickler for detail. But after re-plating and buffin' 20 old Sta-tites for the Perm, I may just use the new 18 to ones on the F-tip!
I've never popped the cover off of an Rotomatic. Is there something in there besides a round gear and a worm gear? Or is the difference just that they're permanently lubed?
Last edited by John Billings on 29 Jan 2008 3:36 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Ken Byng
From:
Southampton, England
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Posted 29 Jan 2008 2:15 pm
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Can't wait to see the rest of the guitar Bobbe.
I hope this guitar isn't in the shop when I visit in March otherwise my credit card may leap out of my pocket. |
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Bill Plemmons
From:
Simpsonville, SC
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Posted 29 Jan 2008 2:36 pm
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Bobbe, Do you know if there are any replacement keys for Emmons PP with a .250 shaft. The original keyheads on my guitar are drilled for .250 shafts. I have researched Kluson, Gotoh, and Grover and the shafts on their keys are .235" I'm trying to get by without doing very much machine work.
Bill |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 29 Jan 2008 3:18 pm
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| Bill, did your Emmons have the Kluson Deluxe tuners on it originally? If so, and you want to go to a more modern tuner like one of the sealed Grovers, you might have to drill the holes out larger than a 1/4". New tuners have a screw in ferrule sorta deal, and I just measured one. About 5/16" OD. And the part of the tuner casting the ferrule screws into has an even larger OD. Then again, I know Shobuds, and have never owned an Emmons. I just like to look at Bobbe's guitars! |
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