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Author Topic:  selling etiquette
David Doggett


From:
Bawl'mer, MD (formerly of MS, Nawluns, Gnashville, Knocksville, Lost Angeles, Bahsten. and Philly)
Post Posted 24 Jul 2008 10:08 am     Reply with quote

That's exactly why I am not a fan of the first-come-first-sell deal. Some people are retired, or are professional buyers and sellers. They watch the Forum and other sites constantly, pass over the fair prices, and snap up bargain items. Other people have day jobs, rehearse or gig at night, and have families. They cannot check the internet often. It is very difficult for them to get in a first offer. And if they are willing to pay a little more than the asking price for something they really want and don't have a lot of time to shop for, that extra should go to the original seller, not a speculator snapping up bargains and reselling at a higher price.

It should be about finding the best deal for the seller, and the desired item for a buyer who really wants it, not a game of musical chairs over who is first poster. It's no big deal for small items like FX units or lesson materials. But for big expensive items like pedal steels, first-come seems an impractical way to do business.
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Don Sulesky


From:
Citrus County, FL, Orig. from MA & NH
Post Posted 29 Jul 2008 8:18 am     Reply with quote

David
I agree with you 100%.
I have just noticed within the last week that a friend of mine who sold his steel to a Forum member a few months ago has turned around and sold it almost as soon as he received it. It is now up for sale again within a month for $700 more than when my friend sold it.
It seems to me we have several on the Forum who belong for one reason only and that is to use it as an extention of Ebay.
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Johnne Lee Ables


From:
Minnesota, USA
Post Posted 18 Aug 2008 5:02 pm     Reply with quote

Don Sulesky wrote:
David
I agree with you 100%. It seems to me we have several on the Forum who belong for one reason only and that is to use it as an extention of Ebay.


Right on the nose, David! As a Newbie/Returnee to PSG I have lost a couple of potentially good purchases to 'brokers' who resold the instrument almost immediately at a tidy profit. I recently sold a VERY nice, truly custom-designed and built instrument (not a PSG) to the 4th person who contacted me. Why? I wanted it to go to a good home where it would be played and appreciated by a happy owner.

Unfortunately, this seems to be a minority attitude in the country that I spent a couple of very risky decades defending! I fear Einstein was right...

"Three great forces rule the world: stupidity, fear and greed." --Albert Einstein

Johnne Lee
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J W Alexander


From:
Reynoldsburg, Ohio, USA
Post Posted 24 Dec 2008 8:13 am     Reply with quote

Having read nearly every post about this topic it occurs to me........

Whoever buys your item shouldn’t be an issue UNLESS you absolutely want it to go to a certain person or more accurately NOT to a dealer/broker/speculator. If your item does reappear here for more shortly after the sale simply post something to that you recently sold the item to them---it will be noticed and no doubt have an effect on its sale here on the SGF. If you want to be selective who ends up with your item “screen” potential buyers with the features found here. Look for their past posting history which should tell you everything you’d need to know about the nature of their presence here. If something seems amiss or goes against your wishes simply don’t sell to them!

Whenever I offer something for sale on any forum I visit I specifically I will NOT accept forum posts as any sort of claim upon it. I have nothing to hide but I very much dislike off-topic comments being added to my post that don’t serve to forward the offering. I state very clearly I want to be contacted directly or by way of a PM if that is an option. Naturally there will be someone who ignores that preference and wants to take issue after they’ve “lost out”.

There is a bit too much of this “what’s it worth??” that goes on here----as though there is some sort of code in effect that limits what something can be sold for, as though it’s original new cost cannot be exceeded by a certain amount—after all it is used is it not? Vintage seems to be a dirty word here yet nearly every time I’ve personally posted something at a fair price I get the tire kickers trying to weasel me lower and lower until I’m almost giving it away---so what’s the solution there? For me I state my price and tend to adhere to it whether it sells here or not. Items I offer that might be of use or interest to the PSG world and can be sold here I’m more than happy to complete the transaction with another member. Unfortunately there are far too many other outlets where the fair price is well above the expectations or desires of many forum members. “Vintage” and highly desirable items always have, always will command a price not necessarily consistent with what it cost brand new. I hate paying $2200 for a 1966 Twin Reverb when they were only $499 new----but where will I really find something that compares favorably?

It is interesting that many items offered for sale here are also offered on eBay, etc and sell for more than seems possible---if one follows those pesky “holler back” replies that often accompany an items initial offer. I guess in the end it comes down to who really wants an item enough to pay the asking price. We do have to keep in mind so much of what we take for granted or dismiss is highly desirable in other countries---so many tend to forget we are indeed in a bigger global market now that the internet is truly everywhere. It has broken my heart to send something overseas BUT I know its going to an appreciative person who will be tickled to own it. Should I instead sell it below my cost or its “global market value” in order to keep a few tightwads here happy? I don’t think so.....

One of my mentors of sorts who deals exclusively in vintage music gear had a philosophy that if he found something truly desirable he’d simply pay enough to own it for eventual resale. He has built a wonderful inventory and even better reputation by offering some of the very best products the USA has ever produced---all because he wasn’t as caught up in the cost as much as the value of things. See it, want it? Buy it---can’t afford it or don’t want to pay that price---don’t! It just can NOT get any more simple than that. These issues will always be hotly discussed and in the end there is no one acceptable method or rule---too many “thoughts” and emotions about another persons property.

Merry Christmas to all---and may 2009 be much much better to all!
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Burnell Groft


From:
Pennsylvania, USA
Post Posted 6 Jan 2009 3:35 pm     Take a number Reply with quote

Joel If there are three people interested in an item
I think the first reply should have a time limit to make a diction. I know when you are deciding on a high $$ item you have to answer a lot of question,and this takes time. You have to let the other interested people know that and to keep them informed. I had a (nice)higer offer on an item that was already claimed. Sorry,I cant do that...
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Jim Cooley


From:
The 'Ville, Texas, USA
Post Posted 30 Apr 2010 9:08 am     Reply with quote

I am new to the forum, but have quite a bit of experience buying and selling on other sites, including auction sites. I generally agree with FCFS, but see several of the other points. How about, "A deal is a deal?" I believe that when an offer is made and accepted, the deal is done. If I agree to buy an item, the seller accepts, and send payment, I should not be told that the seller accepted a later offer because it was for more than the price we agreed upon. If I as a seller am not willing to accept an offer, I should respectfully decline, not accept it and later inform the buyer that I am selling to someone else for more money.

I also think that open, honest, prompt communications can prevent problems. Case in point:

A couple of weeks ago, I noticed an amp for sale on the forum. I contacted the seller, who lives in my general area. The amp was still for sale. There were no pending sales. We agreed that I could go see it and pay if I liked it. I emailed him with a prospective date to do that. He needed a little time to make sure what was included, cover, foot switch, etc. He wasn't sure he had them. No problem. No response, either. I checked his posting again, and the other buyer had clearly posted that he was backing out of the deal, and had purchased another amp. I emailed again, stating that I was still willing to go see the amp, pay in cash if I liked it, and save us both the shipping hassles. In the meantime, I saw another post by the same person for another amp. I emailed again - willing to look at both amps. No reply. When he did reply, he stated that he was keeping the first amp. Fine, I was still willing to look at amp #2. He agreed. I offered to make the trip this weekend. No communications. Yesterday, a response - someone was sending a money order for amp #2. I agree that in this case, I never made a commitment to buy either amp, but better communications certainly would have avoided quite a bit of uncertainty, trouble, and probably a few hard feelings. I will be reluctant to but from this person in the future.
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John Hudson


From:
Buckeye, Arizona USA
Post Posted 5 Sep 2011 6:45 am     Selling Anything Reply with quote

Joel, I have two years of Business Law in school (not an attorney) and the following is my understanding: "Offer and Acceptance" guidelines rule the roost in written and VERBAL agreements. In its purest form, you offered and the first caller accepted. Deal closed. (IF the first offerer wishes to pursue legal remedy due to you selling to a better offer, he would use this as his argument - even verbal contracts such as this are enforceable in Court). The safest course of action is to keep your offer open, but say to the first buyer that you would give him "Right of First Refusal" meaning the offer is open until he pays you as agreed. If someone else offers a better deal, the seller (you) would then contact the first buyer, advise him of the new offer, giving the first buyer an opportunity to match the new offer or turn it down. If the first buyer declines, you would then be free to sell to the new buyer. Hope this helps. John
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John Hudson


From:
Buckeye, Arizona USA
Post Posted 5 Sep 2011 7:19 am     Addendum to Selling Anything Reply with quote

I've read quite a few of the posts here, and from strictly an emotional viewpoint, agree in principle in wanting your instrument to go to a good cause - whatever that may be. However, the hard cold reality is that anyone who purchases anything may now do whatever they want to with it, UNLESS certain conditions to the sale were stipulated within the original offer. But that raises the question of how would the seller know what the new buyer is doing or going to do in the near future? Could be problematic. Best to stay unattached, simply sell and move on. Example: I purchased a beautiful 1959 Hammond Organ from two mid-80 year old widows in Scottsdale, Arizona. They hadn't turned it on in over 15 years, wanted to get rid of all their "big" stuff so they could sell their +4000' house and move into something easier to maintain. I suggested they donate the organ to church or charities. They had already tried, but none would accept an organ that wouldn't work (they didn't want to pay the cost to service it). The ladies wanted it to go to someone who knew what it was and would appreciate it. So, I offered them $600 for the 'furniture' value and took home an organ "that looked like it was still on the storeroom floor" according to one of the local organ service personnel that I had in to bring it up to speed. It still does not have a scratch anywhere on it, and I have a fully functioning Hammond C-3 (walnut case) with the original JR20 speaker + a Leslie 330 I bought. I've been offered up to $10K for the package but refused to sell. Every organ oriented professional, serviceman, and musician who has seen it has offered to buy, but I'm staying true to the two sellers and keeping it intact for the future generation. I could just as easily have cut the case down, reset the internals into a lightweight, and in the doing would have destroyed something that will never be around again. Nope. But remember, not everyone thinks or believes in the same honorable principles that I do. Just a thought. Knightsix
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Niels Andrews


From:
Salinas, California, USA
Post Posted 15 Mar 2012 7:36 pm     Reply with quote

In the last two weeks I have bought a guitar and sold a guitar through the forum. Both transactions went well and I had two locals wanting to buy the guitar I was selling. They wanted to come over with cash and pick it up. But I waited a day and the first buyer came through, I am glad I waited. I would like to add both transactions were with paypal. For me the way to go. I would use the forum again.
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Jeff Metz Jr.


From:
York, Pennsylvania, USA
Post Posted 16 Sep 2012 10:34 pm     Reply with quote

A great example of this is when I feared that Someone would purchase the steel guitar off of the forum that I wanted to purchase. The seller had mentioned a $100.00 down payment to hold the guitar. I called and asked where to send the payment of 100 dollars to because I wanted to purchase the guitar the following weekend. He gratuitously said " heck if you want the steel in a week, don't bother sending a down payment its yours" and I think thats the way it should be. A serious enquiry (to the best of your knowledge) should be taken SERIOUSLY.
This doesn't need a whole sticky. If you have a doubt that your being unfair, then you probably are being unfair. If you can offer your email as a means of contacting you, then make sure you check it as often as your phone rings. If you can't, then say Phone only.
Thanks
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Jack Bowman


From:
Washington, USA
Post Posted 8 Feb 2013 5:57 pm     Who get s it?????? Reply with quote

"I am interested"....means only that!
"I will buy it now. How do you want your money?" is a bonafied commitment to buy it and should be honored over anyone who "IS interested"
I missed a nice steel over such an "Interested" deal.

Life goes on!
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Carl McLaughlin


From:
New Brunswick, Canada
Post Posted 6 Mar 2013 12:16 pm     Sellers Reply with quote

Sad My biggest beef,is guys that list an instrument,You express interest,want more info,send messages,private emails,and days go buy with no replies,and then sometimes all of a sudden it has been sold??
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Dan Ernst


From:
California, USA
Post Posted 28 Jun 2013 2:55 pm     Jerry Byrd MIJ 8 string is Lapsteel Fry Pan Reply with quote

Hi
I am new to forums but am trying to figure out how much a Jerry Byrd MIJ 8 string is Lapsteel Fry Pan is worth. I can post pictures but don't know where to post and if that is ok with forum rules.
Thanks
Dan
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Jon Light


From:
Brooklyn, NY
Post Posted 28 Jun 2013 3:07 pm     Reply with quote

Dan--if you are seeking pricing (or any other) info on this particular guitar and you are not yet ready to post a classified ad, the post and the pics should go in Steel Without Pedals.
It is a perfectly ok inquiry. No problem at all.
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Dan Ernst


From:
California, USA
Post Posted 28 Jun 2013 3:20 pm     Reply with quote

Thank You
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Dale Gamble


From:
Montana, USA
Post Posted 24 Aug 2013 12:32 pm     My two cents worth Reply with quote

I'd just like people to be aware of an experience I just had that was most disappointing. I was in the process of working a deal on a PSG that I really wanted. The seller and I were communicating via PM and he had just offered to sell it to me at the price he was asking, but that he would pay the shipping cost. The original posting had been for the price plus shipping. I responded by asking if I could buy it on a credit card. His response was that he had just sold it to someone else in his local area. The very next day, the same guitar was listed on eBay for a starting bid of $300.00 more than I would have paid for it. The guy even used the same pictures bearing the steelguitarforum.com marking. That was heart wrenching to say the least. I wanted that guitar because it would have fulfilled a life long (69 years) dream to own and learn to play a PSG, whereas the guy who ended up with it just wanted to sell it for more money. I hold no animosity toward the Forum seller, however. I probably should have indicated a stronger commitment to buy it in the first place. Sometimes you're the bug, sometimes the windshield.
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Niels Andrews


From:
Salinas, California, USA
Post Posted 24 Aug 2013 12:49 pm     Reply with quote

Money talks. First one with the cash gets it. If you want to try to beat someone up on price don't be surprised if you are left out in the cold. If I see my lifelong dream guitar I am not going to haggle over shipping. I have bought guitars and I have sold guitars on the forum and every transaction has been great.
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Dale Gamble


From:
Montana, USA
Post Posted 25 Aug 2013 2:44 pm     No haggling Reply with quote

Actually, there was no haggling over shipping or anything else. I had asked the seller what the shipping cost to Montana would be so that I would know the total cost. His immediate response was that he would pay the shipping.

Now here's the next chapter. I contacted the guy that bought it and put it up for sale the very next day on eBay, and offered to buy it for the same amount that he had paid for it. His response was that he was actually trying to trade the guitar for a banjo rather than sell it. Now, I have to ask you, why would somebody who wants a banjo spend $1,600.00 on a guitar that he doesn't want just so that he can trade that guitar for a banjo? Why not just apply that $1,600.00 toward the purchase of a banjo in the first place? I just don't understand what makes some people tick.
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Lonnie Burkhart


From:
Kentucky, USA
Post Posted 14 Feb 2015 4:42 pm     Reply with quote

If your just a regular forum member trying to buy or sell notice how dealers start sending private messages . Question
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Paul Awalt


From:
San Diego, CA.
Post Posted 31 Mar 2015 3:45 pm     Selling/Dealing Reply with quote

What I find is some dealers hog the selling listings with repeated self indulge replys. If your a dealer, setup a separate website and leave the forum to the individuals that are not in it as a business.
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Damir Besic


From:
Nashville,TN.
Post Posted 31 Mar 2015 4:42 pm     Re: Selling/Dealing Reply with quote

Paul Awalt wrote:
What I find is some dealers hog the selling listings with repeated self indulge replys. If your a dealer, setup a separate website and leave the forum to the individuals that are not in it as a business.


it is not free to run this, and fee's from the sales are a big help,more sales = more money to run the forum
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Damir Besic


From:
Nashville,TN.
Post Posted 31 Mar 2015 4:54 pm     Reply with quote

Lonnie Burkhart wrote:
If your just a regular forum member trying to buy or sell notice how dealers start sending private messages . Question


so, you think dealers don't get PM's from " just regular" members when they're selling a guitar? I don't understand what is your point. I get more low ball offers from "regular" forum members, then from dealers, so what? who cares? I don't care who sends the offer, if I like it, I'll take it, if not then I won't, and that's all that's to it...
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Paul Awalt


From:
San Diego, CA.
Post Posted 1 Apr 2015 11:02 am     Reply with quote

Didn't mean to strike a nerve, but if a dealer has 11% of the listings on the first page and 50% of the replies to his listings are his own, he should find another method of free advertising.
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Damir Besic


From:
Nashville,TN.
Post Posted 1 Apr 2015 11:13 am     Reply with quote

It is "for sale" section, there is other parts of the forum you can go to chat...there is a reason why b0b set this the way he did...and nothing is free, fr ever sale 5% goes to the forum
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Andy Henriksen


From:
Michigan, USA
Post Posted 19 Aug 2015 4:53 am     Reply with quote

Why do so many sellers request that a listing be "closed" or deleted after the sale is complete? Some ever go so far as to edit/remove the text of the O.P., deleting all the pics, etc.

I would think it would be of great benefit to the forumites to simply add a "Sold!" to the thread subject, and leave the rest of it intact. It serves as a good archive of what items were selling for at various points in time. This can help sellers set realistic asking prices, etc. Just my .02...
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