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Topic: HSGA posts |
Denny Turner
From:
Oahu, Hawaii USA
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Posted 1 Jun 2005 3:22 am |
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For a number of years I have wondered why the HSGA did not reach for it's fuller potential in promoting itself and the Steel Guitar, ...and I have casually discussed same with a few Steelers here in Hawaii that have felt similarly, ...and I have joined similar discussions here on the forum over the last couple of years. Reading Gerald's postings in this discussion left me amazed and fully perplexed ....UNTIL the light finally came on in my thick / dim skull this afternoon.
The point I suppose many of us have missed is that the HSGA's primary "mission" is not to promote the Steel Guitar, ...but to promote traditional Hawaiian music which includes the Steel Guitar. Within those confines, ...what Gerald says here makes more sense.
(From the HSGA website):
quote:
Our Mission
HSGA's mission is the promotion and perpetuation of traditional Hawaiian music which includes the unique "signature sound" of Hawaiian steel guitar.
That pretty much limits the potential, optimism and motivation for promoting the 'Hawaiian Steel Guitar' (which has been lauded as the correct name for the non-pedal Steel Guitar) on the broader scale of it's potential. That doesn't devalue the treasure that most forms of Hawaiian Music is; It's just that a music style rather specific to language, culture, etc. ...isn't going to go much farther than the reach of that language and culture.
I suppose the HSGA has already confronted what aspirations are futile in that narrow scope.
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SO, ...Thank You Gerald, and the HSGA, and all there who have indeed played a big part of keeping Hawaiian Music with Steel Guitar alive for us and whoever else to enjoy and study.
And Thank You for the info and perspectives that help us understand the HSGA better. I think most folks concerns are because they appreciate the HSGA and it's potential.
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Now, with all that said; Should we cease discussing what more HSGA could do for both Hawaiian Steel Guitar and for "Traditional" Hawaiian Music?
Aloha,
DT~
[This message was edited by Denny Turner on 01 June 2005 at 04:23 AM.] |
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Jeff Au Hoy
From:
Honolulu, Hawai'i
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Posted 1 Jun 2005 3:28 am
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| I am secretly hoping that all local reggae and Jawaiian artists suddenly adopt the steel guitar as their instrument of choice. |
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Ron Whitfield
From:
Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA
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Posted 1 Jun 2005 11:13 am
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I think it's reached apoint were we should offer a big Thank You and Aloha to the HSGA for the last 30+ years of efforts, appreciate the hard work and sacrafices the volunteers have put in, as well as the great contributions by Jerry Byrd to promote/perpetuate/teach the Hawaiian steel guitar, and then call it a day, IF merely maintaining it on life support is it's future plans. It won't die without them, just like it wouldn't have died without Jerry Byrd's efforts, it'll just continue to smell very bad.
With all the HSGA has done, it obviously is not capable of doing what needs to be done if the steel has a chance of rebounding to where it belongs. The most expressive musical instrument (2nd to the human voice, and in rare hands the theremin) deserves to be given a much higher regard and a concentrated focus than it has been recieving the last 2 decades. It needs to be front and center at every possible moment, and all City or State functions would be a fine place to start exposing our so called leaders of society to the beauty of the steel. Ram it down their throats until at least a few relize they like and appreciate it enuf to help to a substantial degree.
The demise of the HSGA forum is a warning like the canary in the mine, time for extreme concern, to say the least. Eliminating it leaves no way for interested parties to get personally acquainted with the instrument/players/info that would lead to even more interest and possible involvement in whatever manner. We well know that sending an Email and getting a response from the HSGA hierarchy is ify at best, therefore leaving little for newcomers to get a handle on or the seasoned to contribute towards.
Lead, follow or get out of the way.
3 things I don't think the HSGA leaders are willing/able to do.
Thanx HSGA for all you've done! It's now time to do even better.
Here's hoping a group focusing on truly promoting and accomplishing a Hawaiian steel guitar agenda that restores the intrument to it's deserved status will emerge and finally get the job done that was started so long ago. With JB gone, that job will now be much more difficult, but it's still possible.
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HowardR
From:
N.Y.C.-Fire Island-Asheville
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Posted 1 Jun 2005 11:28 am
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ok then, let's break for some poi.....  |
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Ron Whitfield
From:
Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA
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Posted 1 Jun 2005 12:01 pm
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| ...old/cold poi with hot kalua pig for lunch today! |
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Gerald Ross
From:
Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
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Posted 1 Jun 2005 12:05 pm
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Ron,
1. Are you a member of the HSGA? If you are, then why don't YOU approach the board with YOUR plan to promote the Hawaiian Steel guitar. If we approve your plan and front you some money then YOU can do the work. When you succeed you will achieve hero status (seriously, honestly).
We are all volunteers. Sitting around playing the "could of, would of, should of" game doesn't cut it in life or in a volunteer organization.
If you are not a member than you should be careful about the opinions you express (I edited this sentence many times before pressing "Send").
2. The HSGA is not on life support. Thanks to the Internet, the HSGA website and the Steel Guitar Forum membership is increasing. Last year's Joliet convention was a huge success in terms of revenues generated, attendance increases (new attendees), educational experiences and fun. Many of the newbies at Joliet 2004 are planning on attending 2005 and are bringing more people!
3. The demise of the HSGA forum means little. Thanks to bOb and this forum there is plenty of bandwidth to discuss H Steel.
4.
| Quote: |
| We well know that sending an Email and getting a response from the HSGA hierarchy is ify at best |
I am part of the HSGA hierarchy. I am a computer programmer, I live on the Internet at least 8 hours a day. I answer email's immediately and get P'ed off when people don't do likewise. Talk to me.
5. And finally. What is your fantasy about the Hawaiian Steel? Should it become a household word like the Uillean Pipes? the Steel Drums? the Chromatic Harmonica? the Bass Clarinet? the Celeste? the Sopranino Recorder, the Theramin? the Bodhran? All these instruments have followings, websites, yearly conventions and people who are passionate about them but you don't see Jay Leno devoting any air time to them.
McDonalds is not going to put Joseph Kekuku's picture on their large drink cups.
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Gerald Ross
'Northwest Ann Arbor, Michigan's King Of The Hawaiian Steel Guitar'
Gerald's Fingerstyle Guitar Website
Board of Directors Hawaiian Steel Guitar Association
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Ron Whitfield
From:
Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA
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Posted 1 Jun 2005 1:47 pm
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We've been down this road before Gerald.
Remember the last time we butted heads on this, when you asked me to contact you about putting our heads together and sussing out the possibilities towards bettering the future and situation of the steel?
I E'd you a 'feeler' to start it off, and in return got no response.
Disappointed, but not suprised.
I'll assume you were and still are simply too busy.
Sorry to piss you off again with my current post.
I guess you'd prefer I shut up on the matter of the HSGA, and I might, as it seems it's a waste of time to 'discuss' it.
It seems ya'll are doing what you can or are willing too, sadly it's not enuf.
And to keep putting on the shoulders of individuals what takes concerted efforts to accomplish is hardly realistic, even tho a very few have managed to eek out some success in spite of it all. Major kudos to them!
Never been a member of the HSGA, and wouldn't be part of any group that would have me. Nor am I the diplomatic type that can tolerate the endless BS from those in the local seats of power I'd have to deal with to make a positive difference. But hey, if a jerk like John Bolten is the guy we need in the UN, then maybe I am the type of jerk we need for this.
By the way, next years (excuse me, it's every OTHER year now) Ala Wai gig needs to have some nice flower arrangements like it used to. No real expense/effort there for those with a vehicle and know where to go for fresh and beautiful freebies. How something so simple and effective can be shunned in this land of flowers and to have a stage devoid of such is baffling. I CAN help on this, and I don't need any mention for it, let alone be a 'hero'.
That Joliette was such a winner this year, and Ala Wai was slightly better than the dismal showings of recent years is encouraging. Membership is on an up after some serious decline, good news! Plenty of $ in the chest, great. That the news ain't ALL bad is a plus.
To be continued after the poi and pig... |
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Jeff Au Hoy
From:
Honolulu, Hawai'i
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Posted 1 Jun 2005 2:04 pm
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| Quote: |
| The most expressive musical instrument (2nd to the human voice, and in rare hands the theremin) |
As much as I love the steel guitar and as big a part of my life it is, I would never take such a stance. In fact what better way to turn people off to what you're doing than to add even a dash of pomposity to it (case in point: my Forum posts... uh, earth to Jeff?)
What about the violin and all its relatives, the trombone (I'm serious on that), and other "microtonal"-capable instruments? Maybe you can get violin-like expression using a steel guitar with a volume pedal, but then you're using all kinds of gadgetry, and you're still tethered to an electric power source... not a real enduring, timeless setup. And although an acoustic steel can yield a wide variety of sounds, it doesn't have the depth of say, a violin in my opinion... it will always be pick attack then tone on an acoustic steel.
Again, I guess I'm not contributing to the HSGA topic, sorry.
Aw Gerald, no supersized McKekuku and fries? |
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Gerald Ross
From:
Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
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Ron Simpson
From:
Illinois, USA
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Posted 1 Jun 2005 5:44 pm
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Someone once wrote that nothing would ever be acomplished if a man waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault with it.
I must send out a mahalo nui loa to all the good people past, present and future, who have made HSGA and it's twin organization, Aloha International Steel Guitar Club as successful as they are. Tis a shame that we don't have unlimited amounts of time and money to persue the things we enjoy rather than more mundane things like earning an income, feeding a family, death and taxes.
It is with great amusement that I recall reading and hearing about the way these two clubs came into being. In each case the members were discontent with the organizations that preceeded them, and sought to make things better, and they suceeded. Sound familiar? The only thing I can say to the current malcontents is welcome to the club you are among friends.
Aloha
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HowardR
From:
N.Y.C.-Fire Island-Asheville
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Posted 1 Jun 2005 6:35 pm
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| Maybe we need a Robert Randolf concert in Hawaii...... |
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Ron Whitfield
From:
Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA
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Posted 1 Jun 2005 7:33 pm
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...BURP, I'm back, pomposity and all!
Heck, I'd go see RR, at a decent price.
Which means I'll probably never catch him.
What a bummer.
Uillian Pipes? Just mention Uillian Pipes to Leno and stand back!
As for the thread, and my "fantasy about the Hawaiian steel", it's already been realised.
Many who were at the first Jerry Byrd Steel Guitar Hoolaulea at McCoy Pavillion in 1980 had their greatest fantasy lived out on stage in front of their eyes as the greatest living steelers (Kelii, Hew Len, Byrd and a HoF host of others) shared that stage and provided an unforgettable evening of incredible steel guitar.
That's when these shows were star studded packed houses and not to be missed at any price (of course they were free). The best of everything.
Steel guitar was on a roll, no need for fantasies.
JB continued this awesome trend til he passed the torch 15 yrs. later, and it's been downhill ever since. I can assure you, he wasn't happy about it.
What happened?
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Don Kona Woods
From:
Hawaiian Kama'aina
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Posted 1 Jun 2005 11:12 pm
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If we were not concerned about this topic, the posts would have ended long ago.
I have been out of commission for a couple of days preparing to move, but I just cannot stay away from some of this discussion any longer.
So for my $.03 worth.
Just remember, there is no harm intended to anything I say or that you think I am saying.
First I would like to respond to some of Jeff’s comments:
It is great to hear you say that something is happening among your peers in endeavoring to capture the essence of traditional Hawaiian music from the early Hawaiian Fathers and Mothers. That moves me.
| Quote: |
| Now, as far as promoting the steel guitar through the HSGA... It will upset people that I say this, but quite frankly young Hawaiians are never going to be sold on the idea that Jerry Byrd saved the steel guitar for them. Nor are they going to be interested in an organization that adheres to that notion. Anything to do with a Haole telling a Hawaiian what is best for him/her is not going to fly. That happened enough in the old days. |
Jeff, I have been with HSGA since its beginning as well as being an early board member. I have never heard a statement from anyone that I know, that Jerry Byrd saved the steel guitar for the Hawaiians nor have I heard a pronouncement from the Board to that effect.
However, Jerry with his own words said that I came to Hawaii to give back what I have received from the Hawaiians who have given to me or touched my life. To that end, he said that he was devoting himself to the teaching of any young Hawaiian who was motivated enough to learn.
IMHO there is no question he helped –not saved- spark interest in steel guitar. While his style of playing may not resonate with some Hawaiians, his teaching of theory, technique, etc. helped quite a number to achieve success without losing their Hawaiian identity or touch, nor prevent them from developing their own individual styles apart from Jerry’s. Again IMHO
When we first started the HSGA conventions in Honolulu, many, many local people were coming out of the woodwork to these conventions expressing great interest in the Hawaiian steel. They were amazed at all of these haole boys from the Mainland playing the Hawaiian steel. Many of the locals had played the steel guitar in years gone by, but it had collected dust for lack of use, but these conventions renewed their interest. I personally hoped that all of the haoles playing steel would provoke the local people to start playing to show us haoles how to play rather than vice versa.
Also at this time the HSGA was located on the Mainland. It was my desire among others on the Board that the HSGA be located in Hawaii and the principal leadership to be from Hawaii. All of us on the board when I served, I believe, would have surrendered our positions to any local Hawaiian person. I would like to see more and more involvement from the local Hawaiian population and see them take ownership of the HSGA. That is what we wanted to see happen in the old days and I believe that is true up to the present. We certainly did not want to tell the Hawaiian people what to do or how to do it. The HSGA is designed to serve.
Just like Gerald says, there is money available for scholarships to local people in order to master this beautiful sounding instrument.
Again, there is no harm intended in anything I say or mean to say.
Aloha to you all,
Don
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Bill Creller
From:
Saginaw, Michigan, USA (deceased)
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Posted 2 Jun 2005 9:33 am
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| I dont always agree with the HSGA on some things, but at least I put my money where my mouth is. Like Ron Simpson says, nothing can really be perfect. Sooooo, if you are not a member of HSGA, dont beat them up unless you get in the act, and put your money where your mouth is. (sorry, but I'm NOT diplomatic) [This message was edited by Bill Creller on 02 June 2005 at 10:34 AM.] |
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Ron Whitfield
From:
Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA
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Posted 2 Jun 2005 12:13 pm
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I havn't seen a post anywhere or heard from anyone who expects perfection from the HSGA or has beaten them up. Perfection is impossible to achieve and simply asking questions or stating facts about things we're not comfortable with is a duty of all in society. If lots more people did this, many of the problems we face daily would never have happened and we indeed would be looking at a country/world that is much better off, instead of heading straight to Heck on greased rails.
My suggestion that the one organization we have that solely supports the Hawaiian steel either sh*t or get off the pot is out of decades of frustration as we've watched interest in the steel go from "what's that" to "all right, steel guitar!" and now back into near obscurity. Those new to the game may not have decades of insight on this and may think that it's not that bad or just having anything at all is good enuf. Not me, and I'm hardly alone. Many steelers you all know, or are aware of and love share many of my opinions, and are not/will not be involved with the HSGA because they see clearly what has and has not been going on.
Overall, I strongly support the HSGA. I deffinitely wish them the best in their efforts.
But being a member or not doesn't mean squat, and there certainly isn't anything in it now for me to be one. We'd never get an audience or reaction from them like we can via this forum.
Be glad that I'm not a member.
It's more important to care and then support, in whatever manner suits the individual. And since we are fortunate to have an SGForum, an HSGA, and to have at least Gerald's ear to hopefully bridge the gap to the board, my intent is to provoke anything/anybody that can/will be a benefit to the steel community.
Sure it ruffles some feathers. GOOD. I'll bet one reason the recent Ala Wai show was a step above the last bunch is in part due to a few voicing their frustrations publicly and/or privately so the HSGA is aware that some are very unsatisfied with what we've witnessed for way too long and are demanding vast improvement or drastic change to eventually achieve the mutual goal. Hopefully more of the needed changes are being planned and soon implemented. It'll always be an uphill battle for steel lovers, but the ball WAS rolling pretty good for a while.
If there is plenty $ in the HSGA chest, then pay a little to get GREAT players over here for shows, like JB used to have. They came for Jerry and their love for Hawaiian music and wowed the audiences, leaving us drooling for more. Who of the then/now living mainland greats have been asked to play in the last 10 years? Remmington was the last to come, which was the first year Alan took over duties from Jerry in '95ish. I'll bet Bobby Black would love to come back. He alone would kick the crap outta virtually all who've been allowed to play the Ala Wai gig for so long. Not always because they aren't good players, but because many are nervous playing on stage and thus don't play near their abilities. That's not the mark of a pro, and this being the main gig to promote the Hawaiian steel needs the best out there.
I'd like to see many shows/workshops staged thruout the year for the less qualified, to get them all up to speed and stage friendly, so that someday they will be worth hearing and not a detriment to the instrument. These should be geared towards drawing out da youts primarily, and the schools otta be the first target. I know I would have loved to get out of class to hear some cool music and learn about something bitchin. If just this had been done regularly accross the island of Oahu alone, the state of the steel guitar would have to be much better off than it is now. Is that so hard?
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Don Kona Woods
From:
Hawaiian Kama'aina
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Posted 2 Jun 2005 11:29 pm
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Ron,
I am stimulated by what you bring up to advance the Hawaiian steel guitar. You put forth ideas and that is needed. Movement can only happen when ideas come forth. They can be rejected at first, but if they have merit and continue to be presented they will eventually have an impact.
It seemed one post stated that you would not be heard as long as you are outside the organization.
Therefore, may I encourage you to join the HSGA and see if what you say would then be heard. I believe that it is worth a try, but I would encourage you to give it a several years trial. Change does not come quickly for any organization, but change comes when persons are persistent. That is the quality I believe that you have, Brah.
I will join you in some of your good ideas. You may not be diplomatic, but I am.
Aloha,
Don
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Bill Thomson
From:
Ocean City, Maryland, USA
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Posted 3 Jun 2005 8:03 am
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Just a simple question. Where or who do you contact in Hawaii for Hawaiian Steel guitar lessons?
Also, I like the idea of workshops held through out the year to help those intermediate/beginners increase their skills. Excellent! |
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Gerald Ross
From:
Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
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Jeff Au Hoy
From:
Honolulu, Hawai'i
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Posted 3 Jun 2005 9:15 am
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| Quote: |
| Just a simple question. Where or who do you contact in Hawaii for Hawaiian Steel guitar lessons? |
You can contact me if you like. I don't believe in the egotistic teacher and student approach (i.e., "Here, do things my way."), but I'm willing to share everything I know, my perspective on playing the instrument.
Bobby Ingano and Derrick Mau are also very open to sharing if you can catch them during their free time.
***
I should add also that I do not charge a cent.[This message was edited by Jeff Au Hoy on 03 June 2005 at 10:18 AM.] |
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Don Kona Woods
From:
Hawaiian Kama'aina
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Posted 3 Jun 2005 9:53 am
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Sign me up Jeff.
I am an eager student.
Aloha,
Don |
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Ron Whitfield
From:
Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA
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Posted 3 Jun 2005 4:54 pm
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Aloha there Don, and thanx for the support and suggestions.
I could explain here why it wouldn't work for me to be involved with them, but it would just be more gas on the fire and they know why anyway, and my main goal does not include getting members of the organization POd which is probably all that has been happening since my first Email to the Pres. a few years ago. Our goals are much the same no doubt, I guess we just have different styles/ideas and timetable of how to get it done.
That my posts 'stimulated' positive thots and response out of at least one person is nice to hear as that is what I always hope for and primary reason for sticking my neck out on the subject. I can take a punch and still be friendly if the reason is good enuf, but it seems some others can't. Gotta keep trying tho.
No blood, no foul.
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