The 9th String on the E9th Tuning

Wayne D. Clark · From: Montello Wisconsin, USA

Good Morning Forum Members. I have a 9th string on my PSG and for the life of me I don't know why. There is nothing wrong with it, nothing special just an common ordinary "D" string. But it may have a complex because I never pick it, I don't see any Tab that pays any attention to it. Is it there so that my PSG can be a S10? because with out it i would only have an S9, and who want's that? In looking over all the Tuning Charts I have on file the {RKR} drops the 9th "D" to a "C#" so it must have some use. So tell me about the Great Hidden Value of the 9th String. I'd like to incorporate it some place.

DESERT ROSE S10 3/5
GOODRICH 120
NASHVILLE 400

Dick Wood · From: Springtown Texas, USA

Wayne,there are many more players that have much more experience that I but one place it can be used is in a pattern known as the "Memphis Vamp" which I use on many up tempo songs as a background rhythmic Vamp.

Buddy Emmons uses a slow desending run on many of his solos that start on the 9th and resolve two frets lower.

I recently used a similar pattern which you can hear by clicking on the link below.

When the Slider either gets to 1:47 or in the middle depending on what player it pops up in,you'll hear that lick.

http://dickosteel.zoomshare.com/files/01_Track_1.mp3

Gene Watson's "Got no reason for going Home" is another example where the 9th string is used in a desending chromatic run.

Hope that helps somewhat.

John Groover McDuffie · From: LA California, USA

Here is a place to start: play strings 9, 7, and 6 with the "B" pedal down and you have a major triad with the root on the 9th string. Add string 5 with the "A" pedal down and you have a major 7th chord.
Not to mention the use as the b7 of any chord with the root on the 8th string (no pedals).

Brint Hannay · From: Maryland, USA

Dick, here are a few:

Pick 9-6-5, press and release A, block, pick 10-8-6, press A & B.

With E raises, 9-8-6-5 is a diminished chord, useful in passing--try sliding it up or down three frets at a time.

If you have the 9th string lower on a knee (let's say RKR): pick 9-6-4, or 9-8-6, press B & RKR.

chas smith · From: Encino, CA, USA

Brint Hannay · From: Maryland, USA

That's funny, Chas, I do the same thing in reverse: tune them both to D and raise 2 to D# while lowering 9 to C# on RKR.

Jay Jessup · From: Charlottesville, VA, USA

This topic does come up from time to time, I am not sure I could play without that D (which is the b7 tone of the E scale and along with the two F# strings helps justify the name E9 of the tuning). It seems to me just about all of E's songs have it used somewhere but try the Exhibition E9 or the Christmas Songs tab to get some heaping and tasteful doses of it.

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

As I (and others cleverer than me) have said before on the Forum, the 9th string is what makes E9th such a complete tuning.

Using that D string as a root note, and using either the A and B pedals, the B and C pedals, or just the B, will open up a whole world of advanced chords. It, and the ability to lower it to C#, is probably why I've neglected my C6th studies!!! There's so much that falls under your fingers with that vital string that I've had a wonderful time figuring out standards (and more 'modern' pop) on the front neck.

The late, and very great, Jimmie Crawford taught me its importance when I was lucky enough to tour Britain with him many years ago. When he saw that I didn't have a 'knee' lowering the 9th on my old ZB, he took great pains to explain - and demonstrate - why it was so essential. I'm not very smart, but I'm smart enough to know when to take good advice.... Very Happy

RR

Kevin Hatton · From: Buffalo, N.Y.

I far as I know NO one has put out an instructional course on the ninth string in all these years. Second string also. There is a very big hole in the steel community for good instructional material. Someone would make alot of money if they just filled this void with the ninth string and the second string. Its sorely needed.

Steve Stallings · From: Houston/Cypress, Texas

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

I've been drawn into discussions on this subject before, and I usually end up frustrated....

I made reference to my having fallen down on my C6th studies but, in reality, it's mainly because I'm so comfortable in that E9th 'landscape' with that rich musical treasure-trove that lies among the lower strings on the tuning.

Someone has just e-mailed me expressing agreement with my view, and that's prompted me to expand a bit. I've long wondered seriously about going from a D-10 to an extended E9th 12-string tuning. The way my E9 is set up, I feel that all I lack is, occasionally, the ability to add a lower bass-note to my chords. I LOVE the timbre of E9, with its relatively light-gauge strings.

I raise the 6th string a tone on my LKV (I don't see the 6th string 'lower' as vital, as so many players do) and this is very helpful; aside from that my pulls are pretty standard.

When I can get up the nerve (it'll be scary making the switch while trying to earn my living!), I'm going to buy a 12-string steel and make the change - NOT to universal, but to extended E9. I MUST have that 9th string with a half-step 'lower'.

(PS: While I agree that the 'D' gives you a kind-of bluesy bass-riff, I feel that's its least-important application.)

RR

Andy Sandoval · From: Bakersfield, California, USA

Micks tab of "Song Of The Islands" uses the 9th string numerous times.

Colby Tipton · From: Crosby, Texas, USA

It is hard to say how I use my 9th string, I use it for a whole lot of stuff.

Bent Romnes · From: London,Ontario, Canada

Wayne, the only thing I have retained about the 9th string is what I learned from the great Jeff Newman about 25 years ago, namely: Think of the two "odd" strings, 7th and 9th as such:

The 7th string gives you your 9th chord and your 9th string gives you your 7th chord. So applying this in its simplest form would be: Hit a major chord with no pedals. Add the 9th string and that gives you your 7th of that chord, for example: Hit a G chord on the 3rd fret. Add the 9th string and that gives you G7th

Ken Williams · From: Arkansas

I use the 9th string a bunch. Some of these have probably already been mentioned here are some possibilities.

Play the 5,6,9 in a pedals up position that will produce a 7th chord, or at least part of one. Play 4,6,9 in the pedal up position and press the B and C pedal down then release. When it is released, it produces a 7th chord with a nice high and low end.

Go up two frets from the pedals up position and play 9,7,5,4 with the A pedal pressed if one way make a major 9th. If you have a lever to lower the 9th a half tone, play 9,8,6,5 with the lever pressed in the pedal down position to play a major 9th. For example play strings 9,8,6,5 with the 9th string lever, no pedals at the 3rd fret to make a C major 9th.

Let's say you're in C at the 3rd fret and you play the typical lead in move by playing 8,8 then 6 pressing the B pedal after you've picked it, then 5. You can get a nice variation by play 9,8,7, then 6 pressing the B pedal after you've picked it, then string 5.

To get the root note to step down to a 7th you could play in the pedals up position, strings 5,6 and 8 pressing your Eb lever after you've picked them, then play 5,6 and 9.

I use the 9th string a fair amount in single note soloing. Strings 6 through 9 are all part of whole tone scale, which is useful at times.

You could a nice chord in play of a 7th using the following. At the 3rd fret play 9,8,6,5 with the F lever and the A pedal pressed. It makes a good substitute for a G7 chord.

Getting late here, gotta run.

Ken

Robert Harper · From: Alabama, USA

Does the extended E9 give you, for te lack of a better phase, that fat sound of the 10th string on C6. Everytime I accidently hit that 10th string on C6. I wonder at the possibilites and see why some people love the tunning. Just curious

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

I hate weighing in here because it may make me sound like I am more than I am..

Our 10 string Instrument is built around a few stock string grips..based primarily on the AB Pedals and maybe the E levers...

To understand the useage of those pesky extra strings that are not in the common zone you have got to think ouitside of the common zone.

the 9th string, the 7th string the 2nd string..they are IN BETWEEN SCALE notes used to get from one place to another.

No different than changing your right hand fingering postions on the 6 string to give you a passing chord or different voiceing. We may also only pick a few strings as well.

Although I never took Piano lessons, My daughters did. They learned scales, using the white and black keys, they didn't learn different chords with the White Keys and the Black keys.

IF we are looking at our fretbord trying to learn different chord voicings rather than the usesage of notes with a scale ( which results in different chords) it's gonna be a long road.

I recall hearing Jeff Newman state early on the exact same thing that Joe Pass states in his Jazz VHS Video...

"I have no idea what the name of this chord is but I know that the notes are right and it sounds good"...

The 9th string..great little string..

In it's most simple form if you pick 9 ,8 and 6 with the B pedal, then hit the dang 9th string lever..it brings you DOWN to the exact same resolve that you would get if you played 10,8 and 6 with the B Pedal then hit the A Pedal, raising the 10th string UP to the resolve.

Put them both together for a VERY nice moving phrase...

Don't just think AB pedals...

Dan Tyack · From: Olympia, WA USA

I got rid of the low D a few years ago. I tune my 9th string to B and the 10th string to E. I also have a knee lever that lowers the 8th string to D which can give you about 90% of what I used the 9th string for. The low E is a *HUGE* addition, IMHO.

Ben Jones · From: Seattle, Washington, USA

Dan Tyack · From: Olympia, WA USA

Since there aren't any changes on that string, I'm not that concerned about the gauge. I've put everything from a 68 to a 54 on it.

Here's a sample of AC/DC style rhythm playing that you couldn't do with that D down there:

AC/DC kinda thing
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www.tyack.com
Capetown girls sing this wrong: "da doo, da doo"

Jerry Hayes · From: Virginia Beach, Va.

Dan, that's some great stuff there! I was a guitarist first before learning steel and I just couldn't stand not having that low E string, that's the reason I went to a 12 string. A friend of mine ordered a new S-10 GFI from Bobbe Seymore a while back and he asked me for some copedant help. I advised him to drop the D string and add that low E which he did. He also lowers the 8th string to D which works great. I don't care much for raising the 9th string to D though, I had that for a while when I was playing the U-12 and I didn't care for it....JH in Va.
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Don't matter who's in Austin (or anywhere else) Ralph Mooney is still the king!!!

Barry Gaskell · From: Cheshire, UK

Hi Wayne
My E's to Eb Kneelever also flattens my ninth a semitone, so when I play fret 1 with that lever flattened I get from the bottom up c,d,e,g,a,c,e. which is is a C6th added ninth, add the B pedal and play strings 9,8,7,6. and you have a G6th, add the A pedal and while you still have a G6th you have a unison between 9 and ten strings (D), play strings 10,9,6,5 and release all and you have the 10 an 9 strings separating and it becomes an F7th, play strings 9,6,5 with the A pedal pressed and you have that delicious chord F6/7, without the root note or the third tone.Use it as a seventh.
Roger
Like you I've neglected the C6th and tend to persue the E9th and play around with the lower strings to get some of those gorgeous C6th sounds. I put a lot of my lower strings experiments on my floor pedal C, as the lower 4 strings generally don't compromise the normal workings of that pedal, and because pedal B two frets up from the open tuning gives you a nice 6th+. When you flatten your two E's and play a tone down from your pedalled position in 6th mode,try flattening your 10th string a tone and a half and play strings, 5,7,10,
While the notes are the same as 5,6,7, the inversion gives you a wonderful C6 feel.
I'm not saying it's anything other than a lovely inversion but I find I'm using it to great effect when trying to get those funky chords.
Best wishes
Barry

Paul Redmond · From: Illinois, USA

I got tired of stumbling over it all the time and have moved the low B up into the 9th string position on all my guitars. all my 10th's are now G# pulled in tandem with 3 and 6. I pull B to D on a KL a la Uni tuning. Much more useful that way and allows for fat, thumb-rake 6th chords on the bottom end pedals-down. Nice dom7 with B to D pedals up. Great for chopping chords behind a singer.
PRR

Charlie McDonald · From: out of the blue

I, too, didn't know what to do with the lo D, so I chose C# for the default. It gives a handy relative minor root, but mostly gives a IVM11 with an A bass, for those of us who have no particular love for the dom. 7th.

There are many good clues in Uni for S12 or extended E9, and I think pedal steel is moving in the direction of Uni. It's easy to raise C#->D, or lower E->D.

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

There are obviously arguments for and against the D for the ninth string, be it on a 10 string, a universal, or whatever.

I thought I'd learned to stay out of these discussions, but I responded to the initial question - 'What is it for?' as it seemed to be a simple plea for an explanation at a fairly basic level. It;'s obviously much more than a simple aid to a rhythmic bass-line, but a big help in voicing extended chords. I hope I didn't come across as affecting an air of superiority - someone had to explain it to me once, and I only wanted to pass it on.

Now I really will leave this topic alone in the future!

RR

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