| Author |
Topic: Studio Charts |
James Cann
From:
Phoenix, AZ
|
Posted 10 Feb 2007 10:47 am |
|
I'd like to see what these typically look like. I'm sure there are variations--is there a standard format in the studio world?--but I'd appreciate seeing whatever examples are out there.
I'm particularly interested in markings that show stops, holds, key changes, intro/verse/bridge/outro sections, etc.
Thanks in advance. |
|
|
|
Gary Shepherd
From:
Fox, Oklahoma, USA
|
Posted 11 Feb 2007 10:40 am
|
|
I normally use the Nashville Number System. If you don't know it, you need to learn it. A sample verse and chorus might look like this.
<pre>
I I IV IV
I I V V7
I v IV ii
I V I v
chorus
IV iv I I
II II ii V
I v IV ii
I V I v
</pre>
Capital letters for major chords, and lower case letters for minor chords.
No this works for any key as long as you know what key you're playing in. In G, the chart above would be...
<pre>
G G C C
G G D D7
G Dm C Am
G D G Dm
chorus
C Cm G G
A A Am D
G Dm C Am
G D G Dm
</pre>
_________________
Gary Shepherd
Carter D-10 & Peavey Nashville 1000
www.16tracks.com |
|
|
|
Randy Phelps
From:
California, USA
|
Posted 11 Feb 2007 11:26 am
|
|
you might want to check out Chas Williams' The Nashville Number System. It is a really great book with a bunch of examples. I started playing with some guys who hadn't any idea about it and when I tried to explain it, I realized that it wasn't universal at all.
Anyway, the book shows a bunch of real charts from Nashville cats and how they do it... very helpful and since then, I've been able to work up charts for these guys that, with the help of this book, they can understand. |
|
|
|
Steve Hinson
From:
Hendersonville Tn USA
|
|
|
|
Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
|
Posted 12 Feb 2007 6:24 am
|
|
| I got some charts from Ray Pillow for a show we backed him on and they looked like the session charts but they had the chords, not the numbers. All the notations about what instrument at what point, etc were on them. I don't remember the album name but he used the Opry Staff band (Jimmy Capps, Hoot Hester, Tommy White, etc). |
|
|
|
David L. Donald
From:
Koh Samui Island, Thailand
|
Posted 12 Feb 2007 6:35 am
|
|
You can also use the similar Berklee number system.
But it uses Roman Numerals, less easy to confuse.
and also beat slashes to show accents.
|: I / II7 / | V / / V7 | IV / bVm7b5 V | I / / / | I7 / / / |
| IV' /' /' /' | V / / V7' | I / / / : | x2
line two mea. 1 is late accent and
This is pre accent | 'IV '/ '/ '/ |
Nashville N.S. works great for simpler forms,
but can get confusing for more complicated work.
Partly because it's the same type of numbers
and they can sorta run together on the page easier.
Berklee N. S. was done for transposing standards
live on the fly into any key,
once you get told the key choice 10 seconds before the count off.
Saved my bacon many a time.
_________________
DLD, Chili farmer. Plus bananas and papaya too.
Real happiness has no strings attached.
But pedal steels have many! |
|
|
|
Bob Martin
From:
Madison Tn
|
Posted 4 Mar 2007 3:52 pm
|
|
Well to tell you the truth there are so many different versions of the Nashville number system that one would be hard pressed to say which one is right. So what I'm saying is as long as it gets you thru the song they are all cool.
I'm not a A Team nor a B Team not even a C Team Nashville session player LOL but I've done a few sessions here in town and every one the charts all had one thing in common. They all used numbers and they all used 4 beat bars as long as it was a 4 beat bar song that is. Waltz's of course 3 beat bars and so on and so on with the occasional extra beat thrown in on a 4 beat bar sometimes on purpose but mostly due to poor timing of the singer 
Any way I have seen so many charts that it would make your head spin. Heck I've probably got 500 to 1000 charts here at my studio from sessions over the years and they were all written by the leader of the session. I've got some written by A Team players all the way down to Z Team players but again they all have one thing in common. They all got you from the beginning to the end of the song.
Some of them were marked as to what instrument played what verse and some didn't. So my comment on the Number system charts is: As long as it gets you thru the song from the beginning to the end they are ok in my book
Bob |
|
|
|
James Cann
From:
Phoenix, AZ
|
Posted 4 Mar 2007 6:12 pm
|
|
Thanks, everyone. I get the basic premise, but, given the comment I made on exception items and the illustrations some of you provided, I'd probably have to sit down with someone who would play it while I read along.
I might be doing too much thinking for my own good, too.
Cheers! |
|
|
|
Randy Phelps
From:
California, USA
|
Posted 4 Mar 2007 10:06 pm
|
|
| James Cann wrote: |
Thanks, everyone. I get the basic premise, but, given the comment I made on exception items and the illustrations some of you provided, I'd probably have to sit down with someone who would play it while I read along.
I might be doing too much thinking for my own good, too.
Cheers! |
The book I mentioned has a cd that takes you through a session... and it shows exactly what mr. martin says... lots of different versions of charts... I've started writing mine the way Randy Scruggs writes them...but there are a ton of styles... the cd is excellent to step you through the process.. |
|
|
|
Dave Boothroyd
From:
Staffordshire Moorlands
|
Posted 7 Mar 2007 1:26 am
|
|
What else is on there though? I can see that if you are playing "standards", well known in your familiar genre, the list of chords will be enough.
What else is in the chart- pencilled into the margins, written between verses etc?
Working with original songs, someone needs to decide how many bars there are between verses, where the guitar plays a fill or answers a melody hook, where the phrase pauses or pulls back on the tempo, or even whether the chords for the solo are verse or chorus chords or completely different.
Back in the days before automation, my engineering charts were full of mix notes written on the lyric sheet.
"Cut 11 at 1.33s, 16 to Max until 1.40s" etc.
What else do you write on the charts?
I think this was part of the original question.
Cheers
Dave |
|
|
|
Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
|
Posted 7 Mar 2007 9:51 am
|
|
It’s helpful to add a few standard musical symbols to the chord charts, particularly rhythm symbols, stops, accents, repeats, etc. If a chord is sustained for one full bar, put a whole note symbol over that chord. If a chord is sustained into the next bar use a tie. If the band punches a chord on the upbeat, use an accent sign and put an 1/8 note symbol above that chord, or an arrow up. I put these rhythm symbols in all of my charts, and they are very handy in the studio and on the bandstand. You can "see" the accents, stops, repeats, ritard, etc on your chart.
_________________
My Site / My YouTube Channel
25 Songs C6 Lap Steel / 25 MORE Songs C6 Lap Steel / 16 Songs, C6, A6, B11 / 60 Popular Melodies E9 Pedal Steel |
|
|
|
John Macy
From:
Rockport TX/Denver CO
|
Posted 7 Mar 2007 5:08 pm
|
|
| I have a jpeg of a killer chart written by forum brother Gregg Galbraith--a pretty intense chart. If someone has a place to host it, I'll send it to them... |
|
|
|
Randy Phelps
From:
California, USA
|
Posted 7 Mar 2007 7:15 pm
|
|
| Dave Boothroyd wrote: |
What else is on there though? I can see that if you are playing "standards", well known in your familiar genre, the list of chords will be enough.
What else is in the chart- pencilled into the margins, written between verses etc?
Working with original songs, someone needs to decide how many bars there are between verses, where the guitar plays a fill or answers a melody hook, where the phrase pauses or pulls back on the tempo, or even whether the chords for the solo are verse or chorus chords or completely different.
Back in the days before automation, my engineering charts were full of mix notes written on the lyric sheet.
"Cut 11 at 1.33s, 16 to Max until 1.40s" etc.
What else do you write on the charts?
I think this was part of the original question.
Cheers
Dave |
Sorry, I wasn't intending to frustrate or not answer the question. The chart has everything from accents, riffs, if you've got 'around the horn' solos, the order of solos and duration, modulations, if you are trading off licks you can even note what you want the pickup note to be etc...
I think that even though there are as many charts styles as there are chart writers most guys can find them useful because they just make sense. I'll scan a chart tonight if I get time and post it... I'll bet you'll look at it and understand it right away...
I've been playing with some guys that had never used them and I started trying to write them and finally bought the book because I needed a some help determining how much detail to put in... btw, several of the guys are proving to be slow learners, but I can't tell if it is the chart or playing deficiency... |
|
|
|
Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
|
Posted 7 Mar 2007 10:44 pm
|
|
In NYC I haven't seen a number chart yet. For live full band sessions the artist mostly just runs through the tune once and you write something for yourself if you need it. I sometimes see lead sheet type charts or I get a written arrangement. Sometimes I get a lyric sheet with some semi coherent chords scratched over the words.
_________________
Bob |
|
|
|
Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
|
Posted 7 Mar 2007 11:21 pm
|
|
| One time a female vocalist gave me a sheet with the lyrics to her original song. Nothing else -- just the words. |
|
|
|
Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
|
|
|
|
Miguel e Smith
From:
Phoenix, AZ
|
Posted 9 Mar 2007 1:58 pm
|
|
Numbers charts can be great ways to short-hand yourself through a progression. In Nashville, it was rare to see anything but a numbers chart (literally numbers...1, 2, 4, etc...not Roman numerals) and everyone has gotten used to using it so it works well even on things that are not just 3 or 4-chords. Here (Phoenix) it's rare that anyone writes a chart out for the musicians (just like what Bob mentioned about NYC). It would help but there is no prevailing method here, unlike Nashville. I was overdubbing on a session awhile back and the writer/producer wrote out Roman numerals, but not the Berklee method but rather the Bach method (II is always minor, III is always minor, etc...) so I just quickly wrote out my own.
It's also easy to get used to blocking verses, chorus's, bridges, whatever, into sections...i.e.; a 16-bar section might be written in a block of 4-measures per line. Makes it easier on the eye/brain to look up and down while playing steel. If there are odd measures (+/-), just make them bold or otherwise standout so it won't be a surprise.
Some charts are w-a-y to difficult for Nashville or Roman numerals and you better either read music or memorize quickly. Take the lead from blind cats who have no choice.
_________________
Mike S.
"Mike & T's House Of Steel" (band)
www.houseofsteelband.com |
|
|
|
John Macy
From:
Rockport TX/Denver CO
|
Posted 24 Mar 2007 10:01 am
|
|
Here's a good, fairly complex number chart done by forum brother Gregg Galbraith....
 |
|
|
|
Tim Harr
From:
Dunlap, Illinois
|
Posted 26 Mar 2007 8:39 am
|
|
| The Gregg Galbreath chart is the style I use when writing charts. |
|
|
|
Ron Randall
From:
Dallas, Texas, USA
|
Posted 27 Apr 2007 8:17 pm Charts and the new Star.
|
|
"Hey, what is the problem? It goes just like the CD. You have heard my new CD, haven't you?"
"Key? O, I forgot, it is one of those high ones."
"Charts? I left them at the studio where I recorded my CD. Surely they kept them on file".
"Maybe they can fax it to you."
"Can you still make the gig? We start in an hour. We are gonna do all the new material first."
 |
|
|
|
