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Topic: Recording Format Choices? |
Kevin Chriss
From:
Carmel, IN, USA
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Posted 20 Feb 2007 6:17 am |
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I just bought a Zoom H4, which I really like. My question is, I don't understand when to use the different recording format choices.
I Have:
MP3 with several different speeds
16 bit at 44.1khz CD quality
24 bit at 96khz
Also, I understand how 16 and 24 bit work digitally. But, I don't understand how frequency relates (44.1khz and 96khz). |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 21 Feb 2007 3:01 am
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the question really depends on what it is you are doing. What is the purpose of the recording ?
For a quality end product, such as transferring completed tracks for a CD project burn , you would want to use 16 or 24 bit wave files.
If you are recording your band at a gig and are looking to just basically hear what you sound like, a HI MP3 setting will be fine.
IF you are making some recordings for the purpose of EMAIL or Internet , the file sizes must be small so use the lowest MP3 settings.
What you may want to do for your own purposes is record a song direct from your CD player with each of the various settings and listen back. In this manner you can get a good feel for differences should you actually detect any.
When I record our band LIVE I use 192, 256 or maybe 320 MP3 settings,I pretty much can't tell the difference. When I record songs direct out from my PC ( Rhapsody) I use a hi MP3 setting. They sound great. ( to me )
I record tunes direct out from the PC to my unit, (R-1) transfer them back to the PC via USB then burn to CD. Everything stays in the digital domain with zero loss.
Another factor is how much memory you have. The higher the settings the less recording time you will have. Wave settings offer way less recording time. For example, with a 1 gig card at 16 bit wave, you get 3/4 of an hour. With the MP3 320 setting it would be approx 3.5 hours. The mp3 64 setting would give you approx 17 hours. If youa re at St Louis hanging out recording the show, you will need to select a setting which allows for more time, or carry an extra memory card or two.
If you do not a have a 1 gig card I would recommend getting one soon.
I use an Edirol R-1 which also has two on board mics, but I also have a small Sony stereo mic which I use often, Sony ECM-MS907, also fits in your pocket. This mic has a 90 degree and a 120 degree axis. Very nice clean recordings.
The H-4 is a fine little unit, I especially like the 4 track function, wish I had that.
I pay $9.95 / month for Rhapsody Internet Music service. There is an amazing amount of music up there. If you can hear music thru your PC sound card, you can now record it direct onto your H-4 . You can take it with you..burn it to CD..delete it..whatever...these small USB MP3/Wave recorders have really opened things up big time. I am working on a few new tunes and I have recorded about 6 different versions of the same song from Rhapsody for idea's and Steel playing, I take the R-1 over to my practice/16 track workstation , listen , practice and hopefully get it right... it's an easy life.
The H-4 allows you to do that right from within , being a 4 tracker with a Guitar input , it's a great tool .
tp |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Posted 21 Feb 2007 5:24 am
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| Speaking of memory, I just bought a 2 gig SD memory card for my H4 and it only cost $39 on sale at Staples. |
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Joe Law
From:
Leslie ,GA
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Michael Winslow
From:
San Francisco, California, USA
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Posted 2 Mar 2007 6:46 pm
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When recording digital audio, the 44.1kHz and 96 kHz refers to what is known as the sampling rate. There are a number of lower sampling rates which are below 44.1kHz and as you can see, 96kHz is a higher sampling rate than 44.1kHz.
When you record audio with a sampling rate of 44.1kHz you will be recording at the same sample rate used to record the music cd's you buy at the store. That's why it's called CD quality.
The way this works is that the higher the sample rate you use to record, the better the audio quality your recording will be. However, using a higher sampling rate will put a lot more stress on your computer system.
If you've got a decent computer system with a fast processer and a fair amount of RAM, say 1 gigabyte, when you record at 44.1kHz you should get a cd quality recording. If you want to record with a sampling rate of 96kHz you will get a somewhat better frequency response, but it will tax your computer system a LOT more. In this case you might need the latest greatest fastest most bestest computer you can buy....that's the trade off. And for most people, it's not worth it at the present time when 44.1kHz will give you a cd quality recording.
On the other hand, let's say you've still got your old clunker of a computer that's not that fast and doesn't have a lot of RAM. By selecting a sampling rate LOWER than 44.1 kHz cd quality you will still be able to record on your system. The trade off here is that by lowering the sampling rate below 44.1kHz, your recording will then be LESS than cd quality. So the lower you set your sampling rate the poorer the audio quality of your recording will be. But this is a good thing if you own an older, slower less powerful computer. You can still record digital audio by using a lower sampling rate but will get a poorer audio quality.
And of course, no matter how fast or slow your computer is....lowering the sample rate will save disk space on your hard drive. So if you just want to hear yourself play and don't especially need to hear cd quality, lowering the sampling rate will let you save more music while taking up less space on your hard drive. |
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Michael Winslow
From:
San Francisco, California, USA
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Posted 5 Mar 2007 9:47 pm
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| So, what does all of this mean to you? (See my post above). I dropped one BIAB track into Sonar 6 Pro. The MIDI tracks take up very little disk space. I recorded myself in digital audio playing along with the MIDI tracks. I created two separate tracks which including both were 10 minutes or less....at the cd quality 44.1 they took up nearly 80 MEGABYTES of disk space. That's the point of my previous post. On a computer hard drive it's sort of audio quality vs. disk space.......if you record in cd quality it's going to use up a lot of space on your hard drive. If you want to save disk space you can record in less than cd quality. But will get lesser audio quality. Or, you can save your files on to a disk (cd recordable) that you can record on and edit and still get the files off your hard drive. There are probably other options. Forum members...any other input? |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 6 Mar 2007 2:12 am
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wave files take up a tone of space, regardless of the unit used to record, especially Stereo wave files that are 10 minutes long.
A single 4 or 5 minute Stereo wave file can easily take up 50 meg...
The H-4 and each of the other small pocket sized recorders are NOT intended to be multi tracking studios first , there primary purpose is for LIVE stereo recordings, or direct stereo recordings of CD tunes in either MP3 or Wave format. Now, as an added benefit they have added a multi track option to the H-4 for convenience, but I somehow suspect they did that more as a marketing thing.
The unit that IS a multi tracker first is the Boss Micro BR, but it does not have stereo mics on board. even this unit is memory limited. Multi tracker first, Live stereo recordings second and with an external stereo mic.
80 meg is not that big of a deal, record and send it off to the PC...
If you have the space and need hi quality you are doing the right thing, 16 or 24 bit waves..but the file sizes are huge.
You can cut the file sizes down less than half by going to MP3/320 and you may not even be able to tell the difference.
Even with the small multi trackers on the market the general rule of things is to record, finish the project, then get it OFF of the multitracker and move it to CD or a PC. My 16 tracker has a 20 gig HD and that is basically good for approx 10 songs..leaving enough room for edits and 2 track masters etc..
Keep in mind the purpose of the tool that you are using, if you re planning mostly multi track sessions the H-4 will do the job but may not be the best choice. I would suggest moving the files to the PC and do editing over there.
What is the END purpose you are looking for with the H-4 ? If you have a 1 gig card that gives you approx 1 hour total recording time ( all tracks) @ 16 bit wave, if you use MP3/320 you have about 3.5 hours. You can still burn CD's at the correct sampling rate regardless of the recording file format. The quality is dimished but you may never be able to hear the difference, and beyond that, what is the purpose of your recordings ? are you selling them at Wallmart or just driving around listening to yourself play over tracks ?
MP3 320, excellent quality
MP3 64, not excellent quality but serves it's purpose.
I use my Edirol R-1 ( 1 gig card) to record all of our gigs, I know the gig is 4 hours, I clear the memory card and set the record rate to whatever will give me around 4 hours, which is generally MP3 / 256.
When I record music from the internet I use MP3 /320. Most of the music is streamed anyway. The result after burning to CD in MY mind is equal or better than a store purchased pressed CD. mostly because I can set the record levels as high as possible without saturation. The more SOUND you can get up to the zero DB level the better the s/n will be and sonically the end result will be very good. The volume levels of the CD's I burn may be as much as 2x that of a store bought pressed CD.
I use either 16 bit or 24 bit wave to take finished projects off of the 16 tracker, I do not burn CD's there anymore. Then I transfer onto the PC and use perhaps one of the edit softwares ( Cool Edit ) for some last minute clean-up before the CD burn.
I have used MP3/64 to record some quick files to be used up here on the Internet..they sound OK, get the job done and are small enough where folks can listen or download with no SIZE issues.
Experiment with the record formats, you can burn them all at CD sampling rate, two different things.
good luck,
t |
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