C# minor Tuning

Rick Collins · From: Claremont , CA USA

I play Jerry Byrd's arrangement of "Paradise Isle" in this tuning but; I don't know a lot of other songs in the C# minor tuning. "Paradise Isle" is a great tune for practicing slants.

Does anyone play a variety of songs in this tuning?

Rick

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

Rick,

back in the 30's and 40's, C# minor was a popular tuning. The Hawaiians used it a lot. However when Jerry Byrd popularized C6th, it became less and less popular. C6 has sooo much more and while the timbre is different, one can get almost the same on C6 as C# minor. But certainly NOT the reverse.

Sorry, I remember only one other tune that I used C# minor tuning on. And that was "Mae Toni". I am sure I played havoc with the spelling of that huanting melody.

I do not know how much JB relates to C# minor in his book that Scotty sells, but you may wish to inquire and see if Jerry charts tunes using this tuning.

God bless,

carl

[This message was edited by C Dixon on 21 September 2000 at 10:35 AM.]

basilh · From: United Kingdom

Hi Rick,

I play most of my "Hawaiian" tunes in the C#m tuning.
"Hula Blues" would be the most descriptive example of this tuning IMHO.(Also Hoopii's version of Twelfth St. Rag )although I think it might be easier in the C#m7.
Check out the clip of Hula Blues @ my web address below.

------------------

Basil Henriques
Emmons D-10 1970
and
Emmons D-10 1970
1949 "Leilani"
1949 Dickerson
RICKENBACKER "Olde Uglie" Twin 8
"Fender 1000"

Kenny Dail · From: Kinston, N.C. R.I.P.

Here are a couple of songs that C# minor (adding the dominate 7 makes it even better) friendly:

Paradise Isle
Sweet Leilani
Coquette (Noel Boggs has a cut on this one)

Here are a couple Western Swing songs that can be played with this tuning, expecially with the 7th note added.

Oklahoma Stomp
Boot Heel Rag (Drag)

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kd...and the beat goes on...

Fred Layman · From: Springfield, Missouri USA

The old Oahu music catalog listed a number of songs in C#minor. Those of you who are using it, what is the pitch sequence of the strings from small to large strings?

Al Marcus · From: Cedar Springs,MI USA (deceased)

I used play a 6 string with A6 tuning on it, and just dropped the 3rd string A to G# for my C# mi tuning.

I used to play all of those. That Paradise Isle with the slant bar gave a nice sort of 9th sound and really work the volume pedal.

Here besides that is as mentioned, "Sweet Leilani", Coquette. I also played "Little Brown Gal", "Moon of Manakoora", "Little Grass Shack".

There are lots of songs you can play on C#mi tuning. Any lap steel player has learned to use 2 or 3 tunings in a night.

I think A6 is so good because you can go to C# min , E6, E7 ,A7 with just a string or two changes.You can even go to C6 real easy. Herb Remington Kept his A6 even after going to pedals, Reece Anderson used Bb6 on his non pedal and it is just a fret higher than A6. Otherwise basically the same.....al

[This message was edited by Al Marcus on 21 September 2000 at 08:15 PM.]

Kenny Dail · From: Kinston, N.C. R.I.P.

Here is the 6 string C#min small to large or high to low;

1 E
2 C#
3 G#
4 E
5 C#
6 G#

I like the 8 string C#min9th which also includes the "D" for the dominant 7th.

1 E
2 C#
3 G#
4 F#
5 D
6 B
7 G#
8 E

I believe that Noel Boggs used this tuning on "Coquette" and some of his others on the album "Steel Guitar Magic." And there are other variations of the above that I won't bring up on this post but, are equally as useful.

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kd...and the beat goes on...

George Keoki Lake · From: Edmonton, AB., Canada

Gads, there are hundreds of beautiful songs to play in C#m tuning...TWILIGHT BLUES, ALOHA TEARS are but 2. Try using the F#9 tuning instead. It has a fuller sound than C#m ...Hi to Lo: E C# G# E A# F# - or - you can get much the same sound as C#m with the E6th - Hi to Lo: E C# B G# E B. Sol Ho'opi'i was a great exponant of C#m as is Bud Tutmarc. Yes, C6 is fine, but I like the good old C#m for some beautiful Hawaiian sounds.
By the way, has anyone heard how Bud is doing these days ? Hope he is mending after that terrible heart attack and stroke.

Rick Collins · From: Claremont , CA USA

I tune a Fender Professional Dual-8 (inside neck) to C# minor as follows:

1. G#
2. E
3. C#
4. G#
5. E
6. C#
7. G#
8. E

I find that I don't use the high G# a lot. It just seemed practical to tune this way. It seems I must hit a lot of single notes in the C# minor tuning that I would make double notes if I were playing the same tune on the C6th neck.

Rick

[This message was edited by Rick Collins on 22 September 2000 at 04:31 PM.]

Gerald Ross · From: Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA

You can approximate the C#m tuning in C6 without retuning.

Using these tunings (lo to hi):
C#m: G# C# E G# C# E
C6: C E G A C E

Strings 2, 3 and 5 in C6 are the same
intervals as strings 1,2,3 in C#m.

You won't get the same tonality because the C6 will have a wound string but it's a lazy-mans way of playing many C#m tunes (approximately).

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

Rick,

you said,

"It seems I must hit a lot of single notes in the C# minor tuning that I would make double notes if I were playing the same tune on the C6th neck."

This was, is, and always will be my "beef" with C# minor. The other beef I have with it is, it seems that every song is played in the "relative minor" key. There is NO 3 note major chord to be found unless you do a difficult backward slant.

True one can get a beautiful 9th chord on the first three strings by doin a 3 note, 3 fret slant. But beyond that, I believe C6 has it hands down over C# minor.

Others will surely dissagree,

God bless you all,

carl

Kenny Dail · From: Kinston, N.C. R.I.P.

Carl IMHO, the C#min tuning is not supposed to give you the major triad. If you want a true major 3 note chordal expression, I recommnend one of the 6th tunings with the 1,3,5 and 6 in the tuning. What makes the minor tuning so pretty is the expression used without the third note. If you are a Hank Williams fan, listen to some of Dale Loman's work on Hank's stuff before they started to use Jerry Byrd on his sessions. A couple that comes to mind are, Last Night I Heard You Crying In Your Sleep, Honky Tonkin' (the first cut that was on the "Sterling" label), Pan American, and there are more. Check these out when you have the time. I consider the C#minor a second or third tuning if you are playing a multi-neck steel. As a dedicated tuning, melody lines as written might be hard to play.

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kd...and the beat goes on...

George Keoki Lake · From: Edmonton, AB., Canada

Duhhh...after all, it is a MINOR tuning fellas. If you want to get the major chords AND the minors, plus 9ths, etc., go with the E6th as I posted above. Besides, there is certainly nothing wrong with playing single notes...listen to most of Tutmarcs recordings as an example of nice single note playing.

Al Marcus · From: Cedar Springs,MI USA (deceased)

Right George. A E6 tuning is a C#min7 tuning.You certaintly can do both major and minor with the E6. I have played E6 for many, many years.....al

Robert · From: Chicago

"Boot Heel Drag", yes: Herb Remington will show you how to play "The Drag" using this tuning on the second of his instructional tapes . . . as for myself, when I'm finished making clam chowder out of this song, I'll just tune that neck back to an A6 - I've got enough to learn on the A6, anyway. The other neck on my Fender is an E13 - Leon's E13, not Don Helms'. Tried to tune to the Helms E13 once, but I think I'll need to check the gauges . . . anyway, that's another thread isn't it? Thanks for letting me drop in

Robert

Denny Turner · From: Oahu, Hawaii USA



LOOKING AT A COMMON C#min TUNING'S VOICING COMPARED TO E6 VOICING:





                      Up 3 frets


   C#min      E6       Emin7


                       Dorian





1. G#  5     G#  3     B  5


2. E   b3    E   1     G  b3


3. C#  1     G#  6     E  1


4. G#  5     G#  3     B  5


5. E   b3    E   1     G  b3


6. C#  1     C#  6     E  1


7. G#  5     G#  3     B  5


8. E   b3    E   1     G  b3








LOOKING AT AN E6 TUNING'S VOICING COMPARISON TO C#min7 VOICING:





                      Up 3 frets


    E6       C#min7    Emin7             


                       Dorian





1. G#  3     G#  5     B  5


2. E   1     E   b3    G  b3


3. C#  6     C#  1     E  1


4. B   5     B   b7    D  b7


5. G#  3     G#  5     B  5


6. E   1     E   b3    G  b3


7. C#  6     C#  1     E  1


8. G#  3     G#  5     B  5

Move E6 Tuning up 3 frets to the Emin7 / Dorian box and it contains the identical step voicing of C#min(7), just 2 notes short of the above C#min tuning's octaves span.

So E6 can provide MUCH / MOST of what C#min does; But C#min cannot come close to the versatility of a 6th tuning. ...IMHO.

And of course the familiarity and habits of either tuning plays a big part in how much a person might want to use either.

=============================

Aloha,
DT~

[This message was edited by Denny Turner on 26 May 2005 at 05:10 PM.]

Jeff Au Hoy · From: Honolulu, Hawai'i

Wow, posts by Carl Dixon... that's a blast from the past.

Ron Whitfield · From: Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA

I'll bet you miss your old buddy, eh Jeff?

Those were the good old days.

This forum has gotten SO stale since Carl, Ray and Jesse(hope I got that spelled right...) used your picture as a dart board.

Memories...

Bill Creller · From: Saginaw, Michigan, USA (deceased)

I have noticed that some guitars, like six string New Yorker etc, sound quite different with a C#m tuning, as opposed to C6. It seems to bring the guitar to life (??)

Barbara Hennerman · From: ** R.I.P. **

I used to play 12th Street Rag in C#minor.

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