The Black Box

Randy Beavers · From: Lebanon,TN 37090

I've had one of Brad Sarno's "Steel Guitar Black Boxes" for a couple weeks now, and I thought this product needed to be revisited.

Like Brad said to do, I run it straight after the guitar before the volume pedal. When I use it with my Music Man amp I can't tell that it makes a lot of difference. A little yes, but not much. The tubes in that amp are already producing those harmonics.

When I use it with my Peavey 1000, I hear a mellowing, or smoothing out of the mids, and the lows have more of a lushness to them. Nothing drastic, but just a nice "conditioning" to the tone. The unit doesn't seem to add any highs or lows to the tone, just make it richer. And as I said this is not that drastic, but I would miss it now if it was gone.

Here's the biggie. My direct sound. My rack set-up is a TC-Electronics parametric EQ, TC-Elecronics G-Major multi effects, ADA Micro-Cab speaker emulator, and a DBX 166 compressor-limiter. All this into a headphone mixer. This is the way I practice 99 percent of the time. With the Black Box this rig may sound better than my recorded amp sound. I know it's more pleasing to me to listen to. I havn't recorded anything yet this way, but I thought I had a good direct recording sound before, and this blows that away.

Brad and others have pretty much covered all the details in earlier post about this unit. I don't remember seeing anything about direct recording sounds being improved. I use what I think are the best sounding cables and effect units that don't color the tone of my guitar. I would think with lesser quality units the difference using the Black Box would be greater.

Randy

jim milewski · From: stowe, vermont

not to mention a black box costs less than a black guitar

Doug Earnest · From: Branson, MO USA

I ran into Brad at Scotty's recently. He had a black box with him, so I got to give it a good examination although we didn't plug it in to listen to it. Randy is better qualified for a listening evaluation anyway. It appears to be a very well built product, first class construction, fit and finish. I'm not an electronics guy, but the insides of it also look very neat and professional. Just my two cents.
Randy, I love your new CD jacket!

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Doug Earnest
The only Zum Keyless U12, Fender Cyber Twin

Randy Beavers · From: Lebanon,TN 37090

Thanks Doug. A man does have to have his toys... And what would a man be without a remote control? I need to have control over something at my house...

[This message was edited by Randy Beavers on 25 April 2004 at 06:13 AM.]

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

The logic behind the box and it's use are quite correct electronically, and it is no surpise that in a direct rig it creates a noticable improvement.

Jackie Anderson · From: Scarborough, ME

Jerry Clardy · From: El Paso, Texas, USA * R.I.P.

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[This message was edited by Jerry Clardy on 24 April 2004 at 08:30 PM.]

Brad Sarno · From: St. Louis, MO USA

It's funny. My original inspiration for creating the Black Box was focused on helping the live rig with all it's effects and solid state devices, but I've been overwhelmed by the enthusiastic responses from those using it in the recording environment. Thanks for the nice feedback guys.

Brad Sarno

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

Brad, I knew you had a winner here, when I first saw your posts about it.
My only request is a discrete buffered tuner output from it.
No sense having that great sound dragged down by a tuner in line before the pedal. (which is where your need it)
That would make it perfect.

Brad Sarno · From: St. Louis, MO USA

David I've considered the idea. It's a good one. The problem I face with having a buffered tuner output though is that I've already used up both stages of the tube. No other active devices in there to do the buffering. It is a real good idea since the BB goes before the VP. That would make silent tuning a breeze. I'll keep that in mind for the future incarnations of the SGBB for sure.

Brad

Kevin Mincke · From: Farmington, MN (Twin Cities-South Metro) USA

And how bout' entertaining a "black box" with the (DI) direct box off the same principle as TubeWorks?

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

Brad, I doubt anyone would cringe if it was a transistor output for the tuner...

MARKED "tuner only" of course.

That would be a relatively easy add on, and the tuner ain't gonna care one way or another.

As long as we can tune with pedal off in seconds and keep on playing this fits the bill. The problem with the small light tuners is they are real poor sound sinks.

And the big cool tuners in racks also tend to be after the pedal... no good for live work.
Or another line running up to you for more stage spaghetti.

You could probably make a very small circuit board, with a tranistor, caps and resistors all set to match an existing DC source and 2nd stage signal level, with the extra phono jack mounted to it, and find a spot to mount the jack in your box, solder on 4 wires and off you go.

Actually the jack would be the circuit boards mounting mechanism.
Eventually for the next generation it would be totally integrated.

I sure ain't gonna gripe if the tuner sees a transister stage.
As long as the amp sees sweet signal.

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 25 April 2004 at 11:02 PM.]

Larry Bell · From: Englewood, Florida

I had originally thought I would only use the Black Box in the studio, but after half a dozen gigs and testing with and without it, wherever my guitar goes, THE BOX GOES.

It gives warmth in the studio, which is what I originally hoped it would do, but it warms up a solid state amp really well live as well. My Standel sounds really great with it and I've also used it stereo with two Standels or a Standel and a Peavey NV112. All of the above are improved by the Box.

Good job, Brad.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

Ron Randall · From: Dallas, Texas, USA

I like it. I can tell the difference. It is subtle. For me it seems to smooth things out and keeps that wonderful string separation. I use it in front of a Hilton to a tube amp. My efx are in an efx loop in the amp.

Ron

Glenn Porter · From: Texas

Brad, do you have the BB in stock.
I would like to order one.
Thanks
GP

Brad Sarno · From: St. Louis, MO USA

Glenn check your email. I've got you on the list. The next batch is nearly pre-sold-out. We'll keep making them though.

Brad

Bill Crook · From: Goodlettsville, TN , Spending my kid's inheritance

Brad...........

Brad Sarno · From: St. Louis, MO USA

Bill, you're right. Tapping off the cathode output would be a clean way to take a buffered tap for a tuner. I'd need to make a couple of changes on the board and chassis to accomodate the 3rd jack. I may just do that for future runs. I had been reluctant to do that in the past partially because many tuners leak digital garbage back out the input jack. In the case we're discussing, that would leak right back into the signal, buffered though it may be, it's still the signal path. I like David Donald's idea of using a simple high impedance solid state buffer in the same place, off the cathode. That way I'd be protected from any tuner dsp garbage that may want to come back into the signal. And if it's hi-Z, it'll have neglegible loading on the signal. I'll add the tuner out to my future to-do list. It's a great idea since it's pre-volume pedal. Convenient silent tuning is such a nice thing.

Thanks!
Brad

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

Brad and Bill too.
I am glad my sugestion has sparked some cogitation.

My small design idea, was with/for the possibility of retrofits one early run units, before it is permantntly integrated.
In case there was a demand for that.

Steels need more tweaks than most stringed instruments, especially an old classic like my Pro II,
and of course silently.

If you get that on the box I will buy one in June for sure, please put me on the list.

I have a gig the 21st I really would want it on, but I think, personaly, I would wait, for the tuner output to be added. (Protoytpes accepted)

Not to say anyone else shouldn't buy now.
The waiting list and great feedback speak volumes for it's success.

For me it is so logical to have a tuner there, it gives still another reason to buy one.
1.5 birds killed with one stone.

And your analysis seems to be on the money.
Go Brad!

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 01 May 2004 at 02:49 PM.]

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