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Topic: Why Do Amps/Preamps Color The Sound? |
Lee Baucum
From:
McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier
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Posted 10 Sep 2000 10:26 am |
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When I plug a pair of headphones into the output of my Lex MPX-100 and listen, the sound is just unbelievable. It is so clear and full.
How come I can't get that kind of tone out of an amplifier? I have both a Nashville 400 (with Lemay mod) and an Evans FET-500. With the tone controls set "flat", the sound is still nowhere close to what I hear coming directly out of the f/x unit.
Shouldn't "flat" mean that the tone is not being changed, or colored?
Inquiring minds want to know. Why can't we have an amp/preamp that faithfully reproduces the sound that is being fed into it?
Lee, from South Texas |
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Bob Metzger
From:
Waltham (Boston), MA, USA
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Posted 10 Sep 2000 12:17 pm
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| An amp and a steel guitar act as a system. Both the guitar and the amp add coloration that the various manufacturers think is appropriate and proper for the unit in question. In other words, the steel guitar and amp do not have a 'flat response' or nor are they designed to have a flat response. When you buy or use a particular amp or guitar, you are, in effect, giving your tacit acknowledgement that you agree with that particular manufacturers philosophy of what constitutes great sound. There is no universal standard as to what sounds good. That is why we are all here. If the goal was to have a 'flat' response, someone would design something that could be scientifically proven to have a flat frequency response, and guess what, no one would use it. (Well, maybe, one or two guys would, "I know it doesn't sound that great, but it's flat!!") If you want to hear what as close to a flat frequency response would be, plug into a very good high-end stereo system and set the controls flat. It will probably sound awful. Also, your steel pickup doesn't have a flat response, nor do the stereo system speakers. Speaking of speakers, most steel guitar rigs don't reproduce much beyond about 5K~6K. Flat response is a straight line from 20 Hz to 20KHz (or more, if you're a dog). You're not gonna hear that out of today's steel amps. Flat response (for pickups and amps) is a myth. Don't worry about flat, worry about about what sounds good. And that brings us back to the inescapable truth: Everybody's different! |
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Dan Dowd
From:
Paducah, KY, R.I.P.
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Posted 10 Sep 2000 4:14 pm
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| I agree about the earphones and the Lexicon. I wish I could get that sound when playing out I usually spend half my time adjusting the amp to get that elusive soung with no luck. |
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C Dixon
From:
Duluth, GA USA
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Posted 10 Sep 2000 8:01 pm
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Very simple Les!
It has nothing to do with the flatness or non flatness of the amp.
It is the proximity of the earphone piece to the ear drum that is the reason you hear nuances that just 6 inches away from your speaker is gone for most people. If you had never heard loud sounds in your life. And you heard an amp for the very first time, you would hear things that would be mind boggling. It would sound just like what you are hearing in your earphones now and even better.
But thru years of listening to sounds that are much too loud for the way we were designed by Our Master, we are NO longer able to hear all the subtle little things that make up sound unless we are extremely close to the source or the sound is horridly loud!
My opinion. But much of it came from studying audiology while employed by RCA.
God bless you Les,
carl |
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Michael Brebes
From:
Northridge CA
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Posted 11 Sep 2000 1:24 pm
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| If you check out the amps, you will find that the worst offender for not being flat is the speaker system. Most guitar speaker are nowhere near being flat and the high frequencies are severely rolled off. The only way to make them flatter would be to bypass their speaker and feed the amp out to a good stereo or studio speaker that has pretty flat response. Also depending on which headphones you are using, they might not be flat response either. |
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Quesney Gibbs
From:
Anniston, AL
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Posted 11 Sep 2000 11:27 pm
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Years ago Peavey had a little paper entitled "What you hear vs what they hear" or something like that. What you hear on stage is not what the people out in front hear. I have had experienced musicians tell me that my tone sounded great but on stage I thought it was terrible. I keep my setting pretty much the same wherever I go and it works. Sometimes we worry about things like that and it ruins the night for us. I worry more about that drummer behind me rushing the beat........
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Jim Smith
From:
Midlothian, TX, USA
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Posted 12 Sep 2000 4:57 am
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I'm with Quesney. Once I got a tone that got compliments, I never changed the tone settings on my Evans amp for the twenty years I played it. Many times in different rooms it sounded bad to me at first, but by the end of the first set, my ears had "adjusted" to it. I now do the same with my Stereo Steel rig.
------------------
Jim Smith
-=Dekley D-12 10&12=-
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Bill Crook
From:
Goodlettsville, TN , Spending my kid's inheritance
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Posted 15 Sep 2000 5:37 am
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Got to agree with C.Dixon on this one. 
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Jim Bob Sedgwick
From:
Clinton, Missouri USA
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Posted 16 Sep 2000 8:17 pm
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| What C. Dixon said. Right ON! |
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Bengt Erlandsen
From:
Brekstad, NORWAY
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Posted 17 Sep 2000 1:34 am
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When listening to the MPX-100 with headphones. Very likely the signal is stereo-processed. So you need two amps + a little magic box between your guitar and amp that emulates the resonance in your head. Put one finger in one ear while singing and you'll know what I mean with resonance.
My tip on how to find a "flat" setting on any amp.
If you want to know how your guitar sounds "flat" Turn bass, middle, treble, presence a couple of times frow fully CCW to fully CW and back. Find the spot where the tone controls start coloring the sound. Set all controls at that spot, play and listen. If not OK. Then apply a little less/more of what you think sounds good. Sometimes I play on different/borrowed amps. Adjusting the tone this way is a very quick way to get almost the same sound of any amp. |
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Derrell Stephens
From:
Shreveport, La. USA
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Posted 17 Sep 2000 5:24 am
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Lee: You have forgotten all the conversations we've had over the years. If you will develop a sumary of the preceding comments, your answer will hit you in the face and ears. Remember one thing (what curly said), loudspeakers are the major hurdle; all amps are capapble of a flat sound, but can it get to the ear drum? Just thought I would rattle your memory a little! Good luck and keep picken!
Derrell |
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Gary Steele
From:
Columbus, Ohio, USA
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Posted 17 Sep 2000 1:25 pm
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| I tried setting all my controls wide open then coming down to what i like. It seems it worked out better for me. It dont hurt to try. Gary |
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