One 12" Speaker for PSG..??

Chas Holman · From: 10 miles outa Lone Star, TX - USA

Has anyone had any luck using a single 12" speaker for steel guitar..? I'm not looking for a "ballsy blues rock" thing, I really want to come up with a good sounding, all around setup for small clubs and living room jam sessions. I'd like to be able to play my Sho-Bud, once in awhile, without having to fire up 200+ watts and enough speaker to singe your nose hairs only to have to turn it down to '1' (or less) before someone calls the law.

Any of your past experiments - successes as well as failures - would help.

Thanks,

-Chas

John Bresler · From: Thornton, Colorado

Chas:

Contact Jeff Newman - I believe that's exactly what he's doing, but I don't know the details. He may be using a remote cabinet, also. I think he got tired of lugging around the 15" cabinets.

JB

Chas Holman · From: 10 miles outa Lone Star, TX - USA

Thanks, John. Is Jeff on the FORUM..? Or do you know his e-mail address..?

-Chas

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

On small venues, I us a Fender Stage 112SE. It has one 12, and a little over a hundred watts. It works great for practice, and in small rooms (up to about 100 people, or about 900 Sq. Ft.)

Chas Holman · From: 10 miles outa Lone Star, TX - USA

Thanks a bunch, Donny. Could you tell me: is the amp set up with a "stock" Fender 12" spkr...? Or have you 'upgraded'..?

I'm considering trying out a 12" PV-BW, just to see how it compares to my experience with the 15" Widows I've used in the past.

Thanks again,

-Chas

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"may the FORUM be with you"

Bob Knight · From: Bowling Green KY

Chas,
I have a Peavey Special 130 with a 1203-4 BW and it does the job very nicely. I use a BOSS RV-3 stomp box with the 130.
I prefer the sound of 12s over 15s
I also use Peavey 112Es w/1203-4 BWs with my stereo rack setup.

Bob

[This message was edited by Bob Knight on 27 July 2000 at 03:13 PM.]

Chas Holman · From: 10 miles outa Lone Star, TX - USA

Thanks, Bob. Mike Brown has suggested that I try the 1203-4 BW. I have an amp comig that has a Celestion 12" in it and I'm pretty sure that a single Celestion will sound a little too "middy" for the steel.

And, as I haven't seen the amp yet, I'm not sure if the 4 ohm load will work in it.

Thanks again,

(jeez - I love this forum..!)

-Chas

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"may the FORUM be with you"

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

I often play small gigs and jams with just my Mesa/Boogie Maverick, which is equipped with a single EVM-12L. At 40 watts of tube power, it sounds fine in a small room or miked.

Lefty · From: Grayson, Ga.

I use my Mesa Boogie Mark I 1-12 EVM-12L on the 100w setting and it sounds pretty good for up to medium sized rooms, or miked, or for recording. Some do lust for that 15" bottom end.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Chas, I use the stock speaker (which is quite good) right now, but plan to buy a "few" speakers to try in my various amps. I will be buying B/W's, EVM's, and maybe even a Standel. I'll let you know the results! (My amps are all Fenders and Peaveys.)

[This message was edited by Donny Hinson on 27 July 2000 at 06:46 PM.]

Al Marcus · From: Cedar Springs,MI USA (deceased)

Charles, a lot of us want what you are looking for.
I have a Peavey Bandit with the Sheffield 12 inch speaker and it is amazing for a lighter weight amp.
I set it on 3 and don't use the high gain, I have it on Low gain for a better sound for Steel guitar.
If the controls are set up right, it really works very well for me.
I also use a Goodrich light beam pedal which does not seem to take any power out of the amp. My pot volume pedal does seem to take more power......al.

Chas Holman · From: 10 miles outa Lone Star, TX - USA

Al,

I've been hearing alot of good things about the Goodrich pedals. Thanks for the input - my old pot types may have to finally go to achieve this 12" eqpd "lil amp" dream of mine. I had also given the Sheffield some thought - but I've about decided to start with the BW and 'learn' from there. I'm going to assume you are using some form of digital reverb, as I've never seen a Bandit with built in Verb. Thanks again.
-Chas

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Donnie,

Great news..! Please DO keep me up to speed on the results of your testing. BTW- Mike Brown is also "very interested" in this little project and from the response to this thread (heck, the great "b0b" himself has even chimed in) I'm guessing I'm not alone in my "search for the good tone - without the Chiropractor's visits". Thanks so much for your interest and informative responses.
-Chas

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Lefty,

never tried a Meas Boogie (I've always leaned toward Peavey) but You bring up an interesting point relative to the speaker end of thngs. As I remember the ElectroVoice speakers, in general, (at least used to) have a better all-around voicing for a multitude of "varied" applications. This might be a better choice than some of the others I've been considering for that reason alone. Thanks for your response and I'm curious: does the "Lefty" handle refer to you being left-handed or that you're playing a "southpaw" setup steel guitar..?
-Chas

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"may the FORUM be with you"

Chas Holman · From: 10 miles outa Lone Star, TX - USA

b0b,

I have been meaning to send you an e-mail since I joined this wonderful FORUM of yours, but I simply haven't had the time. You see, I ask a question on ANY topic and the fantastic membership of this venue seems to want to help me out with every little issue I bring to the table. I don't sit down to the PC these days that I don't have an e-mail from someone about something I've asked about on this FORUUM. What a GREAT bunch of people..!! It's been incredible to hear from old friends like Herb Steiner and Tommy Detamore - just from seeing my name on a thread...what a concept you've spawned..!

Before I forget, thank you for the response to my 12" Spkr thread, Mesa Boogie seems to be a popular choice these days and one that I may have to eventually look into. (I've also heard some talk that you'd sound good playing through ANYTHING..!)

But the real reason I wanted to e-mail you was to thank you personally for the efforts you have put into this Site and all it's georgeous "bells and whistles". Being a bit of a WebWeaver myself, believe me I can see the quality that you have built in to this thing. I know that you have spent man-years (and, I'm sure, many of those frustrating day-turned-into-night-turned-into-day hacking sessions) developing this and you have done an exemplary job on it.

God bless you and Lori and Jackie and Jack and Janice and Brad and anyone else (transparent to user) that are involved in this project.

You Sir, are to be comended. Thank you for helping me re-invent myself and getting me back into playing steel guitar again. If this had been available in 1987, I never would have left the 'business'....

You are and will remain my hero, Bobby Lee,

Sincerely,
-Chas

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"may the FORUM be with you"

Lefty · From: Grayson, Ga.

I am amidext...use both hands, but my steel and guitars are all left handed. I have tried right handed, but it feels totally alien.

Robert Parent · From: Gillette, WY

I have been using Electrovoice EMV-12L speakers for many years. My first was a Music Man 100 watt tube amp and the latest is a rack system using two EVM-12L's.

I have also used a 12 inch JBL K series with good success in a 50 watt Music Man amp.

Chas Holman · From: 10 miles outa Lone Star, TX - USA

Thanks for the input, Robert. I also used JBL's for a time (way - way back) before I went to the Black Widow's. Appreciate you taking the time to respond,

-Chas

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"may the FORUM be with you"

Bill Crook · From: Goodlettsville, TN , Spending my kid's inheritance

I use a pair of 112E's (12 inch BW speakers) out of a stero 100 watt amp. A killer of a sound, it gives you the BIG full room sound(when used with a stero or phase shifted FX unit) all the time, even if you are in a small room or large.

I have been known to use a CS-800 for a power-amp, but the smaller amps and speakers give a great "In your face" kind of a sound when used in the stero mode.

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

Chas, thanks for the kind words.

I hope it doesn't burst your bubble, but I must point out that the Forum is actually an off-the-shelf software package called UBB. I've hacked it a little bit, but not much. People have the impression that I wrote it. I didn't.

Back to the speaker question, I've recently assembled a rack system that uses a stereo power amp and 4 separate speaker cabinets. I have 2 15" JBLs and 2 12" EVMs. The 12's sit on top of the 15's. My idea is to use just the 12's on smaller gigs, and the stacks on big ones.

My power amp (a Mesa Fifty/Fifty) doesn't bridge to mono, so it will never shrink down to a single 12. Some power amps do, though. I know it means hauling two boxes, but the single 12 cabinets aren't heavy and you can also get some pretty light weight single space power amps these days. Just an idea.

Still you can't beat a little combo amp for convenience. I think the Fender Stage 112SE is the best combo amp for steel in its price class. I'm not sure if they are still making them, though.

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Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session S-12 (E9), Speedy West D-10 (E9, D6),
Sierra 8 Laptop (D13), Fender Stringmaster D-8 (D13, A6)

Michael Brebes · From: Northridge CA

I also suggest the EVM-12Ls. They have better bass response than the Celestion Vintage 30s which also sound pretty good but not as good for pedal steel.

Bob Metzger · From: Waltham (Boston), MA, USA

Believe it or not, I use a Fender Deluxe Reverb ('68 Silverface) on my smallest gigs. It is stock, 20 watts (or so) and may be my best sounding steel amp that I own. Well, I lied - it's not 100% stock but mostly. It's got an EVM-12L speaker, reverb in both channels and the 'normal' channel is voiced for my steel guitar and I've allowed for the added output of the steel guitar pickup with some additional headroom. I used to use a solid state rectifier in it but for the past few years the 5AR4A/GZ34 has been fine, as long as you don't push it too far. This is far and away the best amp to ever come out of Fender. Bill Schultz, are you listening? (Too bad about the circuit board!)

Bob

[This message was edited by Bob Metzger on 03 August 2000 at 12:36 PM.]

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

Does that have 6V6 output tubes, Bob?

Lee Baucum · From: McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier

Many, many moons ago, someone was raving about the Tech 21 Trademark 60. It has Sansamp circuitry and a 12" speaker. I have heard that is 60 very loud watts. They also came out with a matching cabinet with another 60 watt amp (no preamp) and a 12" speaker.

Lee, from South Texas

Bob Metzger · From: Waltham (Boston), MA, USA

Yes, it (Fender Deluxe Reverb) has in it stock 6V6GTA's. The tone is so awesome I've never needed to stray from the standard power tubes. (At least on this amp!) Of course , these aren't the 'original' tubes the amp was built with; I've got a very nice set of power tubes in this amp now. I use it in very quiet applications, with great success.

A friend of mine has a Tech 21 amp that he swears by (at??) but he's not a steel player.

Bob

Dan Tyack · From: Olympia, WA USA

For you Jerry Garcia fans out there, I seem to recall Pete Grant telling me that Garcia used a Fender Deluxe on that Teach your Children recording.

To answer the original question, I use a single 12" in low volume situations. I have three different setups: I sometimes just use a Peavey Classic 30 with a stock PV speaker. I also have an awesome small cabinet with a single 12" Celestion which is great for small blues gigs. And I have a cab with a JBL E120, which I like a lot. To my ears it is smoother sounding (more like the EV) than the D or K-120.

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www.tyacktunes.com

Joe E · From: Houston Texas

I use the TradeMark 60 and its deafining loud. And as far as I'm concerned it reacts like a tube amp. Period! It is a single 12" combo. It can imulate any of the great amps talked about above. I use it on just about any gig. I do use the 60 watt ext cabinet on outdoor venues.

Back to the point....the size speakers you use need to be proportional to the space you need to fill. A speaker could be loud enough to play outside but not full enough.

A single 12" speaker has plenty of bottom for a room that seats maybe 50. Remember the proximity effect for the bass responce. For steel I use the BW or EVM's. They seem to have the right voiceing for the instrument. JBL's are great but tend to be a little bright and need some EQ for steel.

The other thing to think about is open or closed back cabinets. 12" cabs seem to sound better with open backs.

just food for thought..

Joe

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