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Topic: Tricone Questions - bar, picks, strings, tuning |
Jim Fogarty
From:
Phila, Pa, USA
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Posted 24 Apr 2024 1:11 pm |
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Hey,
Just picked up a surpisingly sweet sounding RK Tricone (squareneck). Currently have it tuned up to High A, and plan on messing with that a while. Couple quick questions.
Is a standard bullet bar the way to go, generally? Any thoughts on metal vs composite (like my favorite on lap steel Clinesmith bar)?
In a lot of the videos I see, players are using plastic fingerpicks. Preferred over metal for any reason?
Other than buying singles and putting together sets, any good source for strings? Bronze? Nickel?
Finally, 6th tunings.At some point I;d like to pursue that, and it seems A6 is a popular one. Do most of you string it with a high E and low C#.....or high C# and low A? (which would be comfortable coming from C6 lap) I'll probably mess with C#m7, too.
Other than Sebastian Muller tabs and Stacy Phillips Hawaiian books, which I have.....and other sources?
Thanks! |
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Jack Hanson
From:
San Luis Valley, USA
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Posted 24 Apr 2024 5:28 pm
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I prefer to use plastic fingerpicks on my resos, because they are louder than metal picks, you can really dig in with 'em, and they don't fly off your fingers as easily as the metal ones when you do.
Many, many moons ago I attended a seminar with Bob Brozman in Richfield, MN. He was a big advocate of using plastic picks on his Nationals. After I had tried 'em, I knew why immediately.
The big trick is learning how to shape 'em to fit your fingers. |
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Joe A. Roberts
From:
Seoul, South Korea
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Posted 24 Apr 2024 6:38 pm
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Whether you want the fifth or the third on top is a very personal decision, in an acoustic context the fifth on top is more traditional.
With the high A6th there are a lot of easy retunings
C6th is an easy retune. Might not normally be a reso tuning but I don’t see why you could’t use it:
E
C# ->C
A
F# -> G
E
C# -> C
C#m7th (technically E13th. One could also leave the F# for the so-called Boggs E13th)
E
C#
A -> G#
F# -> E
E -> D
C# -> B
A nice tuning you could try with the strings you have on now is the mostly forgotten C major tuning.
This might be interesting to you if you are used to third on top C6th but want more of a classic straight major sound for your acoustic.
C Major High Bass:
E
C
G
E
C
G |
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Robert Gardner
From:
Vermont, USA
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Posted 24 Apr 2024 6:50 pm
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| I have tried both bullet slides and the various slides with grooves for your fingers (I prefer the Shubb) and for sure the Shubb is easier to handle but the bullet slides seem to have more mass and (I think) sounds better. I have been practicing with the bullet slide to try to get used to it because I like the idea of it, but I have not bonded with it yet. Still a work in progress. I use it on a square necked National Tricone, a Weissenborn and a Rickenbacker Panda, so each is a different set of challenges. |
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Joe Burke
From:
Toronto, Canada
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Posted 24 Apr 2024 8:07 pm
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Congratulations on the tricone!
I use a Dunlop bullet bar with steel picks on my fingers. I like that sound. But after reading Jack’s reply, I may try plastic.
Jack - what kind of plastic fingerpicks do you recommend? |
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Jack Hanson
From:
San Luis Valley, USA
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Posted 25 Apr 2024 7:04 am
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| Joe Burke wrote: |
Jack - what kind of plastic fingerpicks do you recommend? |
I used to use (and still have a few sets of) the black plastic picks that were once marketed by Gibson, but haven't been available for decades. You may run across new old stock in an old, established music store that's been in business for a half-century or more. Those old Gibsons are my preferred plastic fingerpicks.
Nowadaze, the Dunlop plastic fingerpicks seem to be the most widely available. I've shaped a few sets of these to my satisfaction:
https://www.jimdunlop.com/dunlop-white-large-finger-picks/
https://www.jimdunlop.com/dunlop-shell-large-finger-picks/
I purchase them in bags of a dozen, and after shaping them, I hopefully end up with one or two pairs that are acceptable, and toss out the rest of 'em.
There may be better ways, but I have achieved a modicum of success using the following method:
1) Bring a saucepan of water almost to a boil.
2) Drop a pick into the hot water (one at a time) for only a few seconds until it becomes pliable.
3) Using a slotted spoon, remove the pick from the hot water.
4) Immediately place the pick over the appropriate finger, and shape it to fit. I try angle the blade just a tad to maximize the surface area that comes into contact with the string(s).
Admittedly, one must be a bit of a masochist to handle the hot plastic on one's fingertip, but it cools relatively quickly after removal from the hot water. You only get one shot at this, which explains the high rate of attrition. I have never been successful in re-shaping a pick that's already been boiled and shaped.
My process works okay for me, but I would be open to learning about any and all other methods which have worked for others.
Good luck! |
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Lloyd Graves
From:
New York, USA
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Posted 25 Apr 2024 6:01 pm
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Congrats on your tricone!
For strings, I bought the set and singles that Sebastian recommends on his website. They work well. Flat wound, with different plain strings.
For learning materials, my first recommendation is what you already have. though I am a bit disappointed with the Stacy Phillips books for a couple of reasons. But that might just be me, as I've heard others are happy with those books.
If you're looking for more, I liked Troy Brenningmeier's, "Slow Old-Timey Licks" lesson, and his first few lessons, which map out the high bass G/Dobro tuning fretboard and a few chords. Those are on the Lessons with Troy website. I bought it when you could get single lessons, but I think he only does subscriptions now.
Mike Neer offers a couple of different options for lessons in his website. That was on my To Do List, but with home repairs and other bills, it has moved to my bucket list, sadly. Mike is in NJ, and might be close enough to get an in person lesson for you.
There is a multi instrumentalist in the Hudson River Valley that plays some Hawaiian guitar, make, fiddle, guitar, etc. He likes old swing, Western swing and Hawaiian guitar. Ambrose Verdibello. That might be close enough for a Philly, as well.
Aside from that, I'm not sure of Hawaiian Steel stuff in high-bass A and C#minor.
I'm up in Ithaca, NY and have a few swing musicians that are patient enough to chop chords for, and swap breaks with me. You should make a road trip. And/or go to the Fiddling Bear Festival at Lake Genero (Central PA) at the end of the summer. It's an old time fiddle fest, but people okay all kinds of music there. I'll have my metal bodied Dobro and would love to play with another Hawaiian steel player! I could find us a rhythm section and some accomplished swing fiddlers to play with, as well. (I'll be doing that with it without you, actually.) |
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Sebastian Müller
From:
Berlin / Germany
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Posted 25 Apr 2024 10:27 pm
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Hey Jim,
congrats to your Tricone.
Nothing much to add here,
info about my strings and bar you can find
here:
https://hawaiian-steel-guitar.com/tunings
Plastic vs Metall picks is not a huge difference,
I like plastic a bit better on acoustic instruments,
a bit louder and warmer sounding.
Good luck, if you have any questions please just send me a email, happy to help !
_________________
https://hawaiian-steel-guitar.com |
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Paul Seager
From:
Augsburg, Germany
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Posted 28 Apr 2024 9:43 pm Re: Tricone Questions - bar, picks, strings, tuning
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| Jim Fogarty wrote: |
Is a standard bullet bar the way to go, ...?
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"Horses for courses". When I meet with friends for informal swing jams, I use a bullet bar (Dunlop). When I go to a bluegrass meet then I use a Shubb.
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In a lot of the videos I see, players are using plastic fingerpicks. Preferred over metal for any reason?
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I prefer plastic (Dunlop) for acoustic. As stated in the thread, they are louder and personally I don't like the contact noise of metal picks on an acoustic.
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Other than buying singles and putting together sets, any good source for strings? Bronze? Nickel?
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What Sebastian suggests!
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Finally, 6th tunings.At some point I;d like to pursue that, ... |
I own a National and the break angle on the strings 3 & 4 is quite extreme. I used to string A high bass (E on top) and then up string 4 from E to F#. I got fed up with breaking strings. I have tried A6 with a C# on string 6 which works if you playing solos and fills but sounded too high for my ears when I comped on chords. For a while I tried F#, E, A on 4,5 & 6. This was better for chord work and for most solos and fills. However, I now go to more bluegrass sessions and I am adapting to open G.
Now for my bluegrass meet, if a song is in a minor key I drop the low G to an E. This works really well but its not a substitute for a 6 tuning.
_________________
\paul
Bayern Hawaiians: https://www.youtube.com/@diebayernhawaiians3062
Other stuff: https://www.youtube.com/@paulseager3796/videos |
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Sebastian Müller
From:
Berlin / Germany
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Posted 30 Apr 2024 2:19 am
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In regards to bullet vs Stevens bar:
Bullet is most definitely more awkward to hold
in the beginning, but the advantage of the
bullet bar is:
easier backward slants
Split bar chords are also a lot easier,
I think it is worth switching to a bullet bar,
I started out using a Stevens, wasn't too hard for
me.
_________________
https://hawaiian-steel-guitar.com |
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