C chord on 12th fret in C6 Tuning

John D. Carter · From: Canton, Ohio, USA

Why does my C major chord seem dull and not bright on the 12th fret? It seems as if there is some type of harmonic interference going on that takes the brightness of the chord sounding away. Has anyone else noticed this or understands what I am experiencing? Is there a solution for better sound here. I was thinking about going to a different tuning but my mind is now so ingrained in C6 that this would be futile at this point in my life. Most popular keys involve extensive use of the C chord. Thank you for any thoughts that might help me here.

Bill McCloskey · From: Nanuet, NY

What kind of steel is it? I've never had a problem with just the 12th fret.
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Glenn Demichele · From: (20mi N of) Chicago Illinois, USA

Make sure you are damping the strings well with your hand behind the bar.
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Andy Volk · From: Boston, MA

There’s nothing about the physics of the notes that would cause this. Sounds like the guitar. Try tuning in just intonation.. A 22.5 will ring a bit less than longer scales.
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Jerome Hawkes · From: Fayetteville, North Carolina, USA

There will naturally be more ‘harmonic interference’ at the 12th fret as by the design of the scale length that is the major harmonic point - that’s why it’s so easy to play harmonics there. I would suggest not trying to play FULL 6 string chords past the 12th as I feel the bass string just don’t do well with the reduced vibration needed - a bass string needs room to vibrate
The 12th fret is the 1/2 way of the scale length- a 22.5” scale at the 12th will be 11.25” Between the nut and bridge

Of course poor blocking doesn’t help mask either

You could try a heavier bar like a PSG weight to experiment if that eliminates it

Tune it to A6 and see if the issue remains

I did read an interview with the great Joaquin Murphy where he said the first Bigsby steel he had made had a dead spot at the 12th fret so anything is possible - but it’s more likely issue #1
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Jerry Overstreet · From: Louisville Ky

12th fret...octave harmonics...what Glenn said...damp the strings behind the bar with your trailing fingers. It's not the tuning...it's a natural occurence on all stringed instruments...and more noticeable playing one with no frets.

Jack Hanson · From: San Luis Valley, USA

John D. Carter · From: Canton, Ohio, USA

You have to love this forum. Special thanks to ones who told me to dampen well the strings behind the bar. That definitely was my problem.

John D. Carter · From: Canton, Ohio, USA

Update: Although blocking behind the bar cleaned up the sound I am seeking to a degree, I am still not satisfied with the voicing on the 12th fret. I am going to change my tuning to either a B6 or a C#6 using the same intervals. I think the string gages can handle the half-step adjustment. I wouldn't think with all of the fine musicians on this forum that I am not the first to have tried this. Thoughts or comments?

Stephen Cowell · From: Round Rock, Texas, USA

Rick Aiello · From: Berryville, VA USA

Some players take advantage of this harmonically rich fret, here is Jerry Byrd ... lifting his trailing fingers ... to get an "effect" at the beginning of a phrase ... right around 1:52 and 2:34 ...

https://youtu.be/6dajjsyR-PU?si=OWK09mxvegzi3LZb

Mr. Green

Jon Light · From: Saugerties, NY

I could be wrong but I was assuming that the OP was thinking of tuning the guitar up or down not to cure the tones at the 12th fret but to achieve a C chord at the 11th or 13th fret.

John D. Carter · From: Canton, Ohio, USA

What Jon Light says. A B6 or C#6 tuning will give a healthier sounding C chord. Useful when playing in keys of C, F, and G. No relearning necessary.

John D. Carter · From: Canton, Ohio, USA

I have moved to C#6 for a better sounding C chord imho.

Tony Oresteen · From: Georgia, USA

No need to re-tune. Just play the song in a different key - C# or B.
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John D. Carter · From: Canton, Ohio, USA

Not when you need to play in the key of G.

Jerry Overstreet · From: Louisville Ky

OK, I understand your issue now. I'm talking pedal steels but when I played U12s the C position comparable to a straight tuning or conventional C on a D10, I tuned the D10s C neck to
B but not for that reason.

Maybe it's different with fixed tunings or the way you play, but I still found I couldn't avoid the 12th fret harmonic when playing certain inversions, fills, chords etc.

It's just the nature of the beast and with many imperfections on all steel guitars, like Bruce Bouton once said, you just have to work things out in spite of them.

Good luck with your situation though.

Nic Neufeld · From: Kansas City, Missouri

I've experienced this too with various guitars more than the other. The physics are kind of interesting, I'm guessing it has something to do with the string on each side of the bar vibrating at the same frequency, and somehow sapping the strength from the main "picked up" side? Which is why damping the strings behind the bar is so critical?

A fun trick is to bar a 12th fret chord and play the strings (undamped) behind the bar. I remember hearing recordings of Basil Henriques doing this and thinking it was some weird chorus effect he had switched on. Also works at frets 5 and 7...but your bar has to be -spot on- for it to sound good.
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