MSA Sidekick - setting up the knee lever

Michael Panton · From: Victoria, Australia

Hi all,

I bought an old MSA sidekick a months back and have been slowly trying to work out how to get it set up and in tune. Following a video by Shane Frame on YouTube I managed to get the 3 pedal playing in tune and was really happy with how they were sounding, however the knee lever remained a mystery and looking at the mechanics I couldn’t see how it could possibly lower the pitch with it’s current setup (as the manual said it came).

After trawling through some old threads on this forum, I found some particularly helpful advice (post here by Michael Hutichson - https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=212767) and realised that my guitar had been modified a bit somewhere along the line and had the spring that is connected to the knee lever removed (I assume for raising the Es??).

Anyway following a few emails I managed to get a hold of a spring (thanks Jim!) and have cut it down to size and the knee lever seems to be working as it should on the 8th string. However I can’t seem to get the setup right for the 4th string to be able to raise a tone with P3 AND lower a semitone with the KL.

I have been trying to find a photo of how it should look with the correct setup but from the many for sale posts I have seen most have had some sort of modifications it seems. I’ve lost a few hours trying to find a sweet spot between the stops that will allow the string to both up and down but feeling like I’m missing something. So just asking for any advice? What am I missing? Anyone managed to get this setup working properly? Any other tips for getting this instrument ship shape?

Ps apologies if I am using the wrong or confusing terminology in this post, I am very much a newbie in the world of psg

Michael Panton · From: Victoria, Australia

Sorry also forgot to include these pics for reference !!

Bobby D. Jones · From: West Virginia, USA

Since the pictures only shows 1 cross rod for a knee lever the guitar was built with 3 pedals,1 knee lever.
With a pull and release Changer, The parts are there to raise on 4th and 8th strings, From E to F.

From the picture.
The top cross rod is for pedal A, It raises strings 5&10 from B to C#.

The 2nd cross rod down is for pedal B, It raises Strings 3&6 from G# to A.

The 3 Cross rod down knee lever. The 4th string looks to have a 2nd rod that goes to the knee lever cross rod, Check make sure the 4th string rod at the knee lever is connected with a insert and set screw.

The 4th cross rod down C pedal Raise string 4 to E to F, 5th string B to C#.

If you want to lower the 4th and or the 8th string, From E to D#. You will need another knee lever, And a spring loaded stop that will hold the strings at open tuning, But it will allow the strings to lower. When the lower knee lever is engaged.

ATTENTION. You need to get 2 lock nuts and put on top and center knee lever stops in picture.

Good Luck getting the guitar set up, Happy Steelin.

Michael Panton · From: Victoria, Australia

Thanks for your detailed response Bobby! Everything you've said there makes good sense but I am hoping to restore this instrument to it's original setup, I've attached a picture from the manual detailing this - see below image.

I've also included another showing the spring attached to the knee lever more clearly, this seems to function OK lowering the 8th string a semitone and returning it back to E, however having the 4th string moving up and down is still my current struggle.

Does it seem to you that I am short a few parts to make this work? It makes sense that I'd need the extra locking nuts for the stops on the knee lever rod.

Also all the rods are connected and currently the 3rd pedal will bring the 4th string up a tone to F#

I've also included another shot of the whole underside of the instrument if that is clearer, you can't see the spring connected to the keen lever clearly in this image, as shown above.

Bengt Erlandsen · From: Brekstad, NORWAY

If the spring wasnt there then your 4th string should drop to Eb. The spring is there to engage the lever to a physical stop "somewhere" that will pull the 4th string up to E

Pushing the knee-lever opposite direction should further extend the spring and drop string back to Eb.

The C pedal should override the knee levers attempt to drop string down with the knee lever so your 4th string should be at F# with C pedal pressed no matter what. C pedal may seem to lift a little when you engage the lever all by itself (would be normal if it happen)

It should be possible to figure out what needs to be done and if you need some extra parts in order to get that knee lever working as you want to. Hope my description helps solving the issue.

If you cant get the 4th string lower to work as you like then maybe try lower the 2nd string(instead of 4th string) to either D or C# with that same lever while still keeping the 8th string E-Eb. That should be a lot easier to get working without any troubles.

B.Erlandsen
Zumsteel S12extE9 7+7

Bobby D. Jones · From: West Virginia, USA

Making decisions with incomplete information is dangerous!!!

Thanks for more pictures, They help a lot.
From pictures, Do not see, Is there an adjustable stop on the knee lever?
SORRY
I had a senior moment and was explaining setting up strings for lower only.

Michael Panton · From: Victoria, Australia

Thanks for the replies again.

Yes the knee lever has adjustable stops on both sides.

I actually had experimented swapping the rods on the 4th string to see if I could find the right configuration but now it’s been pointed out I realise that it does makes more sense to be around the other way. Today I swapped them back but the main issue that p3 doesn’t have enough travel to override the knee lever and move the 4th string up a tone. If I move the stop so that it has enough travel then the knee lever can’t work to lower the pitch as the finger gets caught on the stop for the pedal if that makes sense.

Bengt Erlandsen · From: Brekstad, NORWAY

If you temporarely remove the spring for the knee lever then your 4th string E should drop to Eb

Your C pedal (if adjusted correctly ) should then when pressed raise 4th string up to E before 5th string starts to raise and then both 4th and 5th string should raise to F# and C# respectively.

After the C pedal works as intended it shouldnt be too much of a problem to add the rod and spring on the knee lever that is supposed to pull the 4th E string from Eb to E.

Engaging the knee lever just stretch the spring so 4th string drops back to Eb(unless the C pedal is also pressed at the same time. If so, then only the 8th string will drop to Eb)

B.Erlandsen

Bobby D. Jones · From: West Virginia, USA

I goofed. Had a Senior Moment. I was thinking of set up for lower only strings.
Not Raise 4 on C pedal, And lower strings 4-8 on knee lever.
I have been playing and working on MSA or GFI all pull steels since about 1995.

I got my 1970 Pull and Release guitar out and worked with it some today. Took a little while to work out how to set the guitar up, Been to long time, Since I worked on a Pull and Release changer.

Back off the 4th and 8th strings off the raise stop.

Push C pedal down to the stop, Tune 4th string to F#, Then release. The open E then needs tuned by the spring that controls the knee lever.
Then tune the 8th string to E, Being held by the Spring from the knee lever. Once 4-8 are open tuned to E held by the spring.

Now Engage the knee lever, Lower the 4th and 8th string with the knee lever and set the knee lever lower stop at D#. The 4 and 8 may have to be worked and move things to get them to tune raise and lower together.

Sorry for my Senior Moment. Happy Steelin.

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