| Author |
Topic: Fender 400 with 4 pedals |
David Farrell
From:
San Diego, California, USA
|
Posted 27 Nov 2023 8:08 pm |
|
Hi friends,
I acquired a beautiful old Fender 400 with 4 pedals.
It's tuned to A6 currently. F#, A, C#, E, F#, A, C#, E (low to high).
The current copedent is:
1: lowers string 2: -- & string 3: - (gets a 1 chord to 4 chord change (Issacs change))
2: lower string 3 - (gets a minor chord)
3: raise string 4 + & 8 + (gets a 7 chord)
4: lower string 1 - & 5 -
Does anyone have any tips for me using this set up? I'm brand new to this tuning & copedent. I usually play E9, 10 string.
Does anyone want to recommend another copedent for me?
I'm having fun trying this one out, but I'm curious for any recommendations.
Thanks, Dave
_________________
Dave
Fender pedal steels, amps & guitars. '73 Sho~Bud PRO 1 CUSTOM. Emmons ReSound'65 S-10 4x5. |
|
|
|
Mark Perrodin
From:
Tucson Arizona, USA
|
Posted 28 Nov 2023 5:05 am 400
|
|
| is it a long scale or short scale guitar? your tuning options will vary depending on the scale. |
|
|
|
Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
|
Posted 28 Nov 2023 5:17 am
|
|
The easiest way to tell an early (long-scale) guitar from a later (short-scale) guitar, even with just a quick glance, is to count the fret markers above the 24th fret. If there are 3 markers, it's a long-scale guitar. And if there are 4 markers, it's a short-scale guitar.  |
|
|
|
K Maul
From:
Hadley, NY/Hobe Sound, FL
|
Posted 28 Nov 2023 6:22 am
|
|
Of course it depends on what styles of music you want to play. If you want to stick to E9, I would try a Ralph Mooney type approach - no chromatic strings on top. Use D9 tuning(to reduce string breakage on #1) or the top eight strings of E9. Make your first pedal E-F, then the usual A, B and C pedals. You can use that second string E flat with the B pedal to get the dominant seven chord that you would normally get using an E flat knee lever change on the fourth string. That’s what Lloyd Green does. Since the A pedal would only be working the B fifth string then you could use that to also do some thing else with a lower string or a higher string. Like lower your eighth string E to E flat or raise your first string F# to G.
_________________
Kevin Maul: Airline, Beard, Clinesmith, Decophonic, Evans, Excel, Fender, Fluger, Gibson, Hilton, Ibanez, Justice, K+K, Live Strings, MOYO, National, Oahu, Peterson, Quilter, Rickenbacher, Sho~Bud, Supro, TC, Ultimate, VHT, Williams, X-otic, Yamaha, ZKing.
Last edited by K Maul on 28 Nov 2023 11:43 am; edited 2 times in total |
|
|
|
Andrew Frost
From:
Toronto, Ontario
|
Posted 28 Nov 2023 8:17 am
|
|
That reverse Isaacs/ E9 change is interesting, on pedal 1. Ernie Hagar used an A6 tuning, in my understanding, that was pedals down E9 and might give you some inspiration. His copedent is in the back of the Winnie book I believe.
If you keep the A6th tuning it might be a good idea to set up something similar to Pedal 5 & 6 (that are on standard C6) to enable more complex voicings around diminished chords. |
|
|
|
David Farrell
From:
San Diego, California, USA
|
Posted 28 Nov 2023 8:56 pm
|
|
Thank you for your replies.
It's a long scale.
I play E9, 10 string. I'm still learning. Been playing pedal steel for 6 years now. I play some country, rock, folk, etc. I like trying to play pedal steel on everything really.
I have really enjoyed messing around with this A6 tuning & the copedent it currently has on it. I'm not ready to convert to E9 yet. Thank you though Kevin, I like your idea of putting a C pedal on the 4th pedal, instead of the 'D' lever.
I haven't really ventured into the C6 neck yet. I do have a D-10, but I'm still learning E9.
This lil Fender is super fun to mess around with!
Thanks, Dave
_________________
Dave
Fender pedal steels, amps & guitars. '73 Sho~Bud PRO 1 CUSTOM. Emmons ReSound'65 S-10 4x5. |
|
|
|
Tim Toberer
From:
Nebraska, USA
|
|
|
|
John Poston
From:
Albuquerque, NM, USA
|
Posted 29 Nov 2023 9:49 am
|
|
You basically have the standard original factory setup on there:
https://steelguitar.com/manuals/Fender400_OwnersManual.pdf
Play around with it for awhile and have fun, I did a lot on a similar setup before I started trying to seriously learn steel guitar.
I personally would put typical c6th 5-8 pedal changes on it - I played a 400 in A6 like that for awhile. If you keep the E on top maybe raise it a half on first pedal ( P5 ) and lower it a half on last pedal ( P8 ) |
|
|
|
K Maul
From:
Hadley, NY/Hobe Sound, FL
|
Posted 30 Nov 2023 6:29 am
|
|
When talking 4 pedal 8 string Fenders one MUST bring up Lew Houston. What he did with this copedent was magical!
_________________
Kevin Maul: Airline, Beard, Clinesmith, Decophonic, Evans, Excel, Fender, Fluger, Gibson, Hilton, Ibanez, Justice, K+K, Live Strings, MOYO, National, Oahu, Peterson, Quilter, Rickenbacher, Sho~Bud, Supro, TC, Ultimate, VHT, Williams, X-otic, Yamaha, ZKing. |
|
|
|
Tim Toberer
From:
Nebraska, USA
|
Posted 30 Nov 2023 7:40 am
|
|
| K Maul wrote: |
When talking 4 pedal 8 string Fenders one MUST bring up Lew Houston. What he did with this copedent was magical!
|
Lew was brought up in this thread and the tuning is explained further. https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=375763&highlight=lew+universal+tuning
I couldn't wrap my head around it enough to consider it, but it is really intriguing. Any recordings of Lew that you suggest to get an idea of what he is doing? I know he recorded with Conway Twitty. |
|
|
|
Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
|
Posted 30 Nov 2023 9:17 am
|
|
| K Maul wrote: |
When talking 4 pedal 8 string Fenders one MUST bring up Lew Houston. What he did with this copedent was magical!
|
However, you must to take into account that Lew didn't use a volume pedal, and therefore he always had both feet to use the pedals. His setup, like Mooney's early setup, was designed with that in mind. |
|
|
|
Michael Sawyer
From:
North Carolina, USA
|
|
|
|
Tim Toberer
From:
Nebraska, USA
|
Posted 1 Dec 2023 6:15 am
|
|
Thanks, that is a great one. Very unique style. I would love to hear more. I have been developing my own weird tuning that uses both feet and no volume pedal. |
|
|
|
K Maul
From:
Hadley, NY/Hobe Sound, FL
|
Posted 1 Dec 2023 10:53 am
|
|
| Tim Toberer wrote: |
I have been developing my own weird tuning that uses both feet and no volume pedal. |
Lew Houston did volume swells with his pinky on the Fender volume control.
_________________
Kevin Maul: Airline, Beard, Clinesmith, Decophonic, Evans, Excel, Fender, Fluger, Gibson, Hilton, Ibanez, Justice, K+K, Live Strings, MOYO, National, Oahu, Peterson, Quilter, Rickenbacher, Sho~Bud, Supro, TC, Ultimate, VHT, Williams, X-otic, Yamaha, ZKing. |
|
|
|
Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
|
Posted 1 Dec 2023 11:21 am
|
|
| Lew used the top-mounted volume control not just for swells, but just like we use the foot volume pedal. In truth, though, he played with a style that was more like a lead guitar player, as most of the time there was no lead player in the band. Rather than copy that style, I’d suggest anyone wanting to expand the capabilities of these guitars just install a couple of cable-operated knee levers. That’s a lot more practical and versatile, overall, and you still have use of the standard volume pedal. I have no levers on my own 400, but that’s because I have several other guitars, and it’s a good mental exercise for me to use just what’s there. |
|
|
|
Dave Zirbel
From:
Sebastopol, CA USA
|
Posted 1 Dec 2023 2:31 pm
|
|
I love those old long scale Fenders!! 
_________________
Dave Zirbel-
Sierra S-10 (Built by Ross Shafer),ZB, Fender 400 guitars, various tube and SS amps |
|
|
|
Tim Toberer
From:
Nebraska, USA
|
Posted 2 Dec 2023 7:12 am
|
|
| K Maul wrote: |
| Tim Toberer wrote: |
I have been developing my own weird tuning that uses both feet and no volume pedal. |
Lew Houston did volume swells with his pinky on the Fender volume control. |
I know Ernest Tavares did the same. On his guitar he had a wheel type control. I am looking at trying to rig up something like that, but my style is kind of developing without it. At some point I want to try and incorporate volume swells and harmonics, for now just trying to get chord movements and some simple fills and stuff. |
|
|
|
Richard Alderson
From:
Illinois, USA
|
Posted 2 Dec 2023 9:24 am
|
|
To the original Poster - I kind of like the A6 set up that you have chosen. The instrument was built in a simpler time, and the total possible raises and lowers are limited. You are definitely going to be blazing your own trail if you stick with A6 and pedals. Andrew Frost has A6 with pedals I think. He also has ten strings and double or triple raises and lowers to work with, not to mention his modern and somewhat jazz influenced perspective. I certainly respect anything he has to say, such as considering some of the basic C6th pedals for your copedant.
The good news is that with Fender 400 the set up is in minutes, and you can change your mind as often as you can change your strings. Lew Houston was one of a kind. I wish anybody 'Good Luck' with trying to copy that stuff. It certainly would be a challenge that's for sure.
_________________
Derby SD-10 5x6; GFI S-10 5x5; GFI S-10 5x5; Zum D-10 8x7; Zum D-10 9x9; Fender 400; Fender Rumble 200; Nashville 400; Telonics TCA-500. |
|
|
|
