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Topic: “TONE” That Is The Question |
Norbert Dengler
From:
germany
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Posted 27 Nov 2023 11:03 am |
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"I can tell you that the reason I did not come to pedal steel earlier in life is that I do not like the traditional tone of it. I feel nothing when I listen to most traditional country music which includes steel playing,
I`ll never understand people saying that. No matter what someone says, but Country Music is the place where a steel guitar fits like a glove imho |
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Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Posted 27 Nov 2023 11:02 pm
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Norbert-
I think what Justin is saying in that quote is related to the concept of recording technology that has been discussed in a few recent posts. The big fat ballsy tone that everyone wants from their rig today would have sounded ridiculous in most straight Country of the 1950-70 era. And vice versa - the shrill tone of yesteryear’s steel guitars that so many of us love (but some do not…), even in the hands of the greats who played them, would sound a bit odd in today’s highly produced bass/drum-heavy Mainstream Pop Country Rock Commerce. Whether or not you like the sound of the guitars or the production of the music as a whole from a particular era is a matter of taste, not objective quality. |
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Justin Shaw
From:
Ontario, Canada
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Posted 28 Nov 2023 11:41 am
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Hey Norbert, Fred is right. Certainly the pedal steel fits well in country music as an instrument. I just mean that growing up hearing that tone in the traditional context was not inspiring to me for whatever reason. I mean no offense, and I definitely respect the players that have come before. Certainly there's lots of skill and craft in the traditional recordings, but I didn't get inspired to play pedal steel until I heard the instrument played in other genres. The vocal quality of Sacred Steel was really inspiring to me.
More recently, Greg Liesz playing for Bon Iver was inspiring because he played in a more mellow, diatonic way than much of the traditional country I have heard, which tends to have more chromaticism than I like. For instance "Bridge Over Troubled Water" is one of my favorite songs of all time. But in Curly Chalker's version on "Counterpoint" there is extra chromaticism all over the place, and the whole thing is more upbeat than the original. Now he is of course an all time great player, and he can cover whatever he wants however he wants. But equally, while I recognize his skill, I do not have to like his tone or playing choices. In the case of his cover I absolutely don't. Anyway I could give a dozen other examples of well-liked songs or players who I recognize as skillful and important but don't find inspiring myself. This is besides the original point of the thread though, and I don't want to hijack it.
To bring it back to the OP's original question a little bit: while I agree that you can still find good music and musicians if you look hard enough, I'm not sure how relevant that is to the original topic. It does matter what's mainstream or popular, because that makes it a bigger part of the culture. As it stands I can run into another self professed music lover and find that while we each like 30 bands, they're all different bands. We don't actually have any specific musical thing in common: no songs or albums or players. In fact if we are both aware of the same bands it's people we both agree we don't listen to: Cardi B, Taylor Swift, Mumble Rap, etc. Inevitably, if I and the other music lover try to share our bands with each other, we still have almost no overlap in what we like. So you end up in a situation where you like popular music and have lots of people to share it with, or you don't and have almost noone to share what you do like with. I think that's too bad. |
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Norbert Dengler
From:
germany
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Posted 28 Nov 2023 1:38 pm
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thanks Justin and Fred, i think everybody who offers his time in this forum brings in a lot of passion for the steel guitar.
Everybody has his own musical biography, resulting in different likes and tastes.
regards from germany |
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Justin Shaw
From:
Ontario, Canada
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Posted 29 Nov 2023 9:49 am
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| I agree Norbert. I was just thinking when I wrote that last post that I can't think of another place where people care this much about all this that they're willing to think and write about it to each other this way. |
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Bill Duncan
From:
Lenoir, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 29 Nov 2023 11:27 am
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I often have people telling me their opinion of the sound and quality of my guitar and playing, but those are their opinions and I do not play to please anyone other than myself. I play pedal steel because I love it. Opinions vary and when it comes to my music, mine is the only opinion that matters to me.
_________________
You can observe a lot just by looking |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 29 Nov 2023 1:16 pm Re: “TONE” That Is The Question
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| Larry Ball wrote: |
| Has Country Music lost its true “Tone” to “Overdrive Pedals and Pedal Boards in general. It appears to me that Younger musicians care little about tone and more about exotic pedals boards. . |
I like to call that an addiction to “sounds”, rather than tone, per se. Believe it or not, I like all tones, and my complaint is more about the lack of variety than today’s generic tone being bad. Back when everybody except Chalker had thinner, more trebly sounds, there was Buddy Charleton. He had the most beautiful, full-round sound that you could want, and he was way ahead of his time in that aspect. When I used to play out, I would change my settings and effects choice frequently, to add variety and to try and replicate the sound of the original records. It wasn’t about me, it was about the song and the singer, doing service to both.
I’ve more or less retired from playing out, unless I can find something that’s fulfilling to me, but today’s commercial country just ain’t it. I realize others love it, and that’s fine. Nothing stays the same, it seems. Pity. |
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Bill Duncan
From:
Lenoir, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 29 Nov 2023 2:39 pm Re: “TONE” That Is The Question
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[quote="Donny Hinson"]
| Larry Ball wrote: |
Has Country Music lost its true “Tone” to “Overdrive Pedals and Pedal Boards in general. It appears to me that Younger musicians care little about tone and more about exotic pedals boards. .[/quote
I’ve more or less retired from playing out, unless I can find something that’s fulfilling to me, but today’s commercial country just ain’t it. I realize others love it, and that’s fine. Nothing stays the same, it seems. Pity. |
Me too, Donny.
_________________
You can observe a lot just by looking |
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Dave Stagner
From:
Minnesota, USA
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Posted 29 Nov 2023 8:49 pm
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| Bill Duncan wrote: |
| I often have people telling me their opinion of the sound and quality of my guitar and playing, but those are their opinions and I do not play to please anyone other than myself. I play pedal steel because I love it. Opinions vary and when it comes to my music, mine is the only opinion that matters to me. |
I joke about pedal steel being a “dancing bear”. People are so impressed to see a bear dancing that they don’t even notice if the bear dances well. People mostly have no idea if I’m playing well or not. (Probably not!)
I only started playing seven months ago now, but right away I focused on getting a pleasing tone. Luckily, my steel is a ZB, and a natural tone machine. I wanted a sort of dirty, rough hippie-tonk tone like Buddy Cage. A Fender Tone Master Deluxe got me there, but it was also a little thin-sounding and aggressive (definitely a vintage sound!). I then started listening to a particular concert video with Big Jim Murphy and fell in love with his huge clean tone. Next step, I tried a Milkman The Amp 100 and was so impressed I immediately bought one. Now I’m using the Milkman with a JBL K-120 I borrowed from another amp, and much happier. For now, I have found a middle ground between the huge Big Jim Murphy tone, and the gnarly Buddy Cage tone. Maybe in the future my understanding of tone will evolve, and the gear will evolve with it. But for now, I’m happy where I am, and my rig sounds the way I want it to sound - and people notice that, including a couple of now-bandmates who have worked with other pedal steelers.
As an aside, I’ve noticed that a great (for me) pedal steel rig is the same as a great Jerry Garcia style rig - Fender type preamp, just at the edge of clipping, treble cranked, into a powerful solid-state power amp, into a 12” JBL. I can use an A/B switch and switch between guitar and steel and be happy doing so.
_________________
I don’t believe in pixie dust, but I believe in magic.
1967 ZB D-10
1990 OMI Dobro
Recording King lap steel with Certano benders |
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Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Posted 30 Nov 2023 8:46 am
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| Bill Duncan wrote: |
| I often have people telling me their opinion of the sound and quality of my guitar and playing, but those are their opinions and I do not play to please anyone other than myself. I play pedal steel because I love it. Opinions vary and when it comes to my music, mine is the only opinion that matters to me. |
More power to you!
I believe no matter what sound you make on an instrument (or a voice, or a bicycle), somebody out there will listen for a minute or two and maybe even say they enjoyed it.
I think most musicians trying to at least supplement their income with playing music for a live audience are somewhat concerned with how that audience responds to the sound they’re making. If you’re a pro, it’s obviously going to be the main concern.
Any of these discussions about tone, in all fairness, should probably include commentary from some of the players and producers who make their living creating the sounds of the music that gets marketed to the mainstream audience. I would certainly be interested in what they have to say about who is demanding what they are willing, able, and maybe even happy to supply. I can also make a pretty good guess as to why they generally don’t say it here. |
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